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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sword of Spirit" data-source="post: 6639537" data-attributes="member: 6677017">The way I look at it, D&D's definition of what constitute a god has been incoherent for a long time. It isn't based on power, since there have been beings as (or even more) powerful than the gods (whether monstrous titanic entities, or unique persons like the Lady of Pain).  It isn't totally based on worship, since arch-devils and demon princes have worshippers. It seems to be pretty darn arbitrary.So here's how I do it, which can be interpreted as a setting without gods (or not, depending on how you look at it.)Basically, a god is just what you call whatever you worship. It doesn't matter if its Zeus, Grazzt, Titania, or a troll with a rubber mask. It's a statement of relationship between you and some other being--it is not a creature type.For the beings that have traditionally and arbitrarily been called gods, I basically refer to them as Immortals (with shades of BECMI), Powers (Planescape), or Immortal Powers. But I throw in the BECMI/Mystara twist that they are believed to all have originally been mortals. Because of this, worship tends to be softened to "following" for most people, and the terms god and deity (as strong relationship terms) are used much less often. Saying that such and so is your god or you worship such and so is less common that saying you follow the path of such and so. It isn't incorrect usage, but people might look at you funny if you use that sort of strong language on a regular basis.As far as the actual source of divine power, I take the Immortals aspect even further. Divine power is just a natural part of the multiverse. It isn't divine because it comes from the Immortals--the Immortals are the Immortals because they have become filled with it. Basically Immortals are uber-clerics.Clerics receive their spells through channeling divine energy--exactly as the Immortals themselves channel it. Generally this ability is ritually conferred on you through some sort of ordination, which you often get from other priests of a particular religions. But there isn't anything theoretically stopping one from finding a way to access this power without that. The important part is that your power isn't actually dependent on these Immortals. You don't get it from them, and they can't withhold it from you. Now, if they get wind that you are going around misbehaving in their name, and they are the type who cares and is active on their world, they might take corrective actions--but those actions involve sending servants, etc--not messing with your abilities.In the final analysis, this results in a campaign that is more or less the same as standard D&D, with changes in how frequently certain terms are used and the ways powerful supernatural beings are viewed. Cosmologically, I get to throw in a bit of BECMI, Planescape, earlier edition openness to personally derived divine power, and old school, "we keep adventuring until we become gods" funness. And, to focus on the point of the thread, the Athar Planescape faction have a pretty strong position with this take...</blockquote>

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