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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Orlax" data-source="post: 7686202" data-attributes="member: 6801305">They aren't different arguments, it's an end the argument has come to from the same exact argument, that PC death is usually due to a failure of some sort on the part of the DM and that it's consequences are not a thing people enjoy.  Your stated solution to the issue of death causing story inconstancies (such as previously non existent people of the appropriate level contrivedly ending up in the right place at the exact right time) is that death shouldn't be permanent.You are literally saying, 'well if you don't like it when high powered people show up contrivedly you should just not let the players die.  You should have seeded some NPC or magic items into the story to essentially take death off the table.'Even better this leads back to you insinuating that their lack of taking death off the table (by providing magic items or NPCs for the party to pay for a rezz) is the DM's failure.  You've literally circled around to inadvertantly supporting the position you started off opposing.Also fun fact, I'm a quick study and I've read the source books for every version of D&D because they were available to me in my last house, and people kept trying to pull this 'you don't know what it was like back in the day' BS on me all through the play test.  I can't visualize those older ones off the top of my head.  I'll give you that, but I've read them and know a lot of the things you are saying, and seemingly GM does as well.  Again the length of time you've been playing for is inconsequential.</blockquote>

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