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<blockquote data-quote="aramis erak" data-source="post: 6532906" data-attributes="member: 6779310">4E flopped with a lot of D&amp;D fans; it succeeded with a smaller number, and had a lot of new fans - people who either hadn't been RPGers and/or hadn't been D&amp;D players, but came to D&amp;D with 4E.4E was, fundamentally, successful at creating a fanbase. What it wasn't good at was being a continuing income stream. They continued to lose more and more as they continued to add splat after splat. And as they added additional &quot;core&quot; rulebooks, the cash investment to get rolling with 4E continued to get higher.Essentials was a partial reset — and not having looked at it, I'm going by hearsay — but not entirely compatible nor simply an errata-applied version. That also was a botch. And edition churn in the same way that AD&amp;D 2E was... A promised consolidation turned into a rules revision. For that matter, that's also the issue with the OD&amp;D to AD&amp;D churn...And one of the problems was the perception that new players needed all 3 PHBs... and then the various add-ons.... If I'd tried to get into 4E (I didn't - not my style of play) any time after PHB 2, I'd have had to ask which was essential... and the answer most people were giving at the time was &quot;both&quot;... So, instead of 1 $40 book, 2x $40 books... then 3x...It was similar to how OE you really needed Supplement 1 to play the same game as most groups, or AD&amp;D After 1986, you needed UA as well, or AD&amp;D 2 after 1993 you needed the various &quot;Complete ___ handbook&quot; line... After a certain pile accumulates, you need to flip to a new edition to make the game accessible to newbs. Setting books don't tend to have the same chilling effect on newbs, nor the consolidate and restart impetus. Adventures don't, either. But splatbooks do. And that's what they really want to avoid.Even the extra MM's don't really add much value, but add to the perceived size of the core. So... they make them part of the setting books or adventure books. It has worked really rather well for Palladium. And SJG, and Chaosium, and Hero Games, and ICE... It would have worked well enough for decipher if not for the embezzlement issue...</blockquote>

[QUOTE="aramis erak, post: 6532906, member: 6779310"] 4E flopped with a lot of D&D fans; it succeeded with a smaller number, and had a lot of new fans - people who either hadn't been RPGers and/or hadn't been D&D players, but came to D&D with 4E. 4E was, fundamentally, successful at creating a fanbase. What it wasn't good at was being a continuing income stream. They continued to lose more and more as they continued to add splat after splat. And as they added additional "core" rulebooks, the cash investment to get rolling with 4E continued to get higher. Essentials was a partial reset — and not having looked at it, I'm going by hearsay — but not entirely compatible nor simply an errata-applied version. That also was a botch. And edition churn in the same way that AD&D 2E was... A promised consolidation turned into a rules revision. For that matter, that's also the issue with the OD&D to AD&D churn... And one of the problems was the perception that new players needed all 3 PHBs... and then the various add-ons.... If I'd tried to get into 4E (I didn't - not my style of play) any time after PHB 2, I'd have had to ask which was essential... and the answer most people were giving at the time was "both"... So, instead of 1 $40 book, 2x $40 books... then 3x... It was similar to how OE you really needed Supplement 1 to play the same game as most groups, or AD&D After 1986, you needed UA as well, or AD&D 2 after 1993 you needed the various "Complete ___ handbook" line... After a certain pile accumulates, you need to flip to a new edition to make the game accessible to newbs. Setting books don't tend to have the same chilling effect on newbs, nor the consolidate and restart impetus. Adventures don't, either. But splatbooks do. And that's what they really want to avoid. Even the extra MM's don't really add much value, but add to the perceived size of the core. So... they make them part of the setting books or adventure books. It has worked really rather well for Palladium. And SJG, and Chaosium, and Hero Games, and ICE... It would have worked well enough for decipher if not for the embezzlement issue... [/QUOTE]

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