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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Frostbiter01" data-source="post: 6824415" data-attributes="member: 6677201">Unfortunately, these answers still leave me with a bit of a quandary. Here was our situation in the game.The party went in to fight Derro. Now Derro have low light but not darkvision. As they entered the cavern there was a fire pit burning low. For the most part it was a natural cavern about 20' tall with both scattered stalactites and Stalagmites. The party came in about 10' when darkness began filling the cavern. The Derro had watched the approaching party nad sent in several darkness spells in the center covering the fire pit The cavern was about 80' long by 50' wide. Some drew their Bows while others prepared spells. First they asked if they could see anything in the magical darkness ahead. Now here was the first issue. The Derro have good hide checks and because darkness gives shadowy illumination it helped them instead of just plain darkness. The fire pit according to the spell give off no light though I guess you could still see it as not to step into it.Some Derro were moving closer to ambush those coming in. So the first question can those outside the darkness see into it and see small figures moving closer? If so what is the DC modifier? Is the modifier different for those that were 10’ inside the edge of darkness and the others who were 30’ into the darkness? What does those outside see inside. Is it just undiscernible shadows moving? The wizard wanted to cast a fireball into the darkness but not hit one of the Stalactites before it got to his point he desired. Would he be able to see those in the darkness area no matter how far away? The dwarf strode in with axe in hand while the Ranger and Rogue fired bow shots. The dwarf wanted to know what he saw once inside. Could he see his friends behind him outside the darkness when he stopped 10’ in? He said if we could see them in shadow then he should be able to look out clearly and see his party, do you agree or should we not have allowed the party to see into the darkness?The dwarf wants to know what he can see. Can he see the Derro closing in on each side about to flank him? Can he see the cracks in the walls only visible from the center of the room and if so do they look like just black gaps on the walls or do all the walls look black thus no discernable opening can be seen. Can he see all the stalactites or just those closest? He wants to know if he can tell where the darkness ends. Can he see that some 30’ away? He wants to know if the darkness covers the whole cavern, can he see that? He wants to know if he can see Derro in the little bit of light by the exit tunnel across the way? Is it easier to see the Derro 10’ from him rather than the Derro 30’ away in the darkness? This was important because the 20% concealment would improve if distance made a difference possibly fading to deep darkness if went past say 10’ from his position. The party then moved in with two players with a continual flame spell which countered the darkness spell within its area of effect. The Derro had cast 4 overlapping darkness spells so they covered most of the cavern. Again the same questions came up. As the two went further into the cavern could those outside of the darkness see the unlit/normal darkness area inside the darkness? Could those moving with the Cont Flame spell see into the darkness beyond their countered darkness area and if so how deep into that darkness. Derro were inside the cracks ready to enter and I needed to know if they could see in and if the party could see the darkened cracks which were entry ways into other chambers housing two Derro each. What they could see, what my Derro could see was important for this encounter. Not only that but as the party entered and they lost their lights since they were not familiar with this cavern and if their sight was only good up to the area of effect of the darkness it meant that possibly they could not know which way was out after battling This is called misdirection in darkness. Another reason I needed to know what the party could see.So you can see there were lots of points of contentions.</blockquote>

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