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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Herobizkit" data-source="post: 2791128" data-attributes="member: 36150">Before my rant, let me chime in and say that any DM who doesn't give the players any forethought when preapring to run an adventure should think twice about why they've chosen to DM.  I mean, if I made a platemail-wearing warrior and knew that I had to go on a boat, I would simply a) not wear my armor, opting for something lighter or b) wear it anyway and only go on deck when I had to.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />  If I'm a Rogue and I'm faced with a non-stop barrage of undead, I'll take points in Use Magic Device and fight from afar, or try some other inventive ideas.  I would appreciate knowing this stuff ahead of time, but the onus falls on the DM to advise the players what he would like to see in his world.  If that's not what the players had in mind, the DM can either kowtow to the player majority and run something else, or find a new gaming group.  Again, the onus is on the DM.To wit...[RANT]It boggles my mind why people think Rogues become somehow *useless* when faced with undead.It has always been my opinion that the Rogue class, practically by default, is expected to be the most "inventive" class when the chips are down.  They're survivors.Now, I can see why some players would be miffed that their precious sneak attack doesn't work on undead.  Well, do you know what does?* holy water* flaming oil* acid* tanglefoot bags* flanking* fighting defensively* magic arrows (and weapons in general)Constructs are a slightly differerent matter, as they tend to be nearly (if not completely) immune to most special attacks.  But... if you're going to play a flitty swashbucker with a rapier and buckler, USE your agility to the best of your ability.And, let's not forget that Rogues get 8 skill points per level.  Surely it doesn't have to be the case that your Rogue isn't optimized for undead slaying and therefore you must roll a new character?  Isn't that what Use Magic Device is for?  How about Search?  Spot?  You can disarm traps; why not make some?  I realize it's hard to do when the undead just *appear*, but isn't that why you should be scouting ahead with your Move Silently skill?Sorry for the rant, but it just bugs me that some people see Rogues only as extra damage machines.  If you want extra damage, play a Fighter.  If you want PANACHE, play a Rogue. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />[/RANT]</blockquote>

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