Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8252838" data-attributes="member: 93670">[USER=6879661]@TheSword[/USER] already covered tiny hut & I'll go into extra detail on why this is a red herring.[spoiler="the risk is a farce"][ATTACH=full]135880[/ATTACH]In other words "Good thing the battle didn't last six hundred rounds so now we get back all our hit points second wind actionsurge rage oh yea spellslots too if anyone cares" [/spoiler]Back in the past when you got back a <a href="http://dnd.arkalseif.info/feats/complete-warrior--61/faster-healing--1084/index.html" target="_blank">flat number</a> of hp per day of rest Tiny Hut would have been a godsend sure, but that's not how tiny hut worked back then and not how 5e works"but tiny hut" ignores that inconvenient little set of details.  Tiny hut being ritual & seeming so good is actually a negative for wizards because it's better than higher level rest spells that aren't ritual and they wind up forced by the party into taking it just as they are often forced into buying a 100gp pearl & learning identify so fighter Frank barbarian Beth Rob Rogue Pam paladin & Cindy Cleric can know what magic gear they just got to actually enhance their capabilities in meaningful mechanical ways.  Finally there is  the bunker problem... While the rest of the party is using ranged weapons & maybe stepping outside to cantrip before ducking back in Wally wizard has this on loop "I guess I'm going to stay inside the dome so it doesn't go away & not cast spells since it blocks my ability to cast through the barrier keeping everyone safe" or maybe "Hey guys, if I walk over to little ceasars while you guys finish this fight do you want to chip in?"*[/spoiler][spoiler="Teleport"]<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-search=teleport&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=&filter-material=&filter-concentration=&filter-ritual=&filter-sub-class=" target="_blank">teleport</a> This one is a complex array of issues that range from only being useful if the GM makes it so to depending on edition differences no longer present in 5e<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">First & foremost trying to teleport to an area you are "very familiar with" has a 24% chance of not getting where you want ranging from a mishap to going somewhere else. The odds quickly get worse from there.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Even if we assume that one can teleport without error every time it runs into a more significant problem. Specifically that there is no point unless the GM makes it a point. In past editions when you recovered hp slowly while resting in the field & slightly less slow while resting <a href="http://dnd.arkalseif.info/feats/complete-warrior--61/faster-healing--1084/index.html" target="_blank">under the right conditions</a> it was a serious benefit to simply teleporting back to town to rest . Firstly that was still a thing generally of dubious value in those older editions though because the person needing the heavy duty recovery was unlikely to be the squishy caster so the caster recovering faster than their crunchier allies is a meaningless hurry up & wait benefit. Secondly even if we assume there was some tangible benefit to doing it the caster still needs to somehow return & doing so is unlikely to be easy or worth the risk unless the gm places a teleport circle where the party is now</li> </ul></li> </ul>That might look familiar & it should because you ignored it & made no effort to even acknowledge those problems for teleport saving your claim of LFQW existing in 5e when I said it to you in post <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/lightning-bolt-should-be-better.679594/post-8252378" target="_blank">94</a>....[/spoiler]<a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/teleportation-circle" target="_blank">Teleportation circle</a>  You brought it up seperate from teleport so you must have a point, sure.... Making a permanent teleportation circle in the party's home base could be super useful to the party, but there's a problem amounting to 18,250 gp plus living expenses plus a year of uninterrupted daily ritual.*I've literally witnessed a player do that at another table while running AL  games at a flgs a couple doors down from little ceasarsLets start with all the things your wrong about or just ignoring.  First off is that casters are literally linear in their scaling while fighters are not.  Any mods  or extra dice GWM etc on their weapon are multiplied across each attack and they get to add their strength or dex mod to those for free before even getting into class abilities like recharge on short rest action surge Fighters gain an extra attack at 5 11 & 20 then get to double that once per long or short rest & then twice per at 17... that is  quadratic not linearA caster does not benefit from having two or three ways of dealing less damage than the guy who doesn't even need a second way who coincidentally has a higher  at will & higher spike damage output is not a boon when the damage types used by that caster are objectively worse than the fighter and balanced against an implausible downright unrealistic scenario where no magic weapons are available.  There's also the fact that the caster can only do that if they have a spell useful to the situation and it targets what may or may not be a weaker save if the caster remembers right. Lets look at that ac though, ac a8 immune to fire... already seeing an issue for your claims & it's not the immune to fire as the big one.  To ht AC 18 with 20 strength & a +1 weapon on a roll of ten or better the fighter needs to be... level 5.  If using the optional travesty in design known as flanking from dmg251 that drops to a 10 or better across 2d20 keep highest or statistically the fighter just gained +5 to an already easy roll.  Obviously a fire giant is a terrible matchup for a group of level 5 players so it's only going to get easier to  hit by the time they are fighting that fire giant."Preparing defenses to resist expected dragon fire attacks"... huh....?!?!  What edition are you talking about here? in 5e those spells tend to be single target short lived concentration spells.  Lucky for you it's easy to make claims when you just assert things without details & claim you were talking about something else when the claim is refuted, back up this claim on your own because it's looking quite false.I'd hate to avoid showing just how significant the damage lead from that fighter is over the caster... maximizing the 6th level spell disintegrate is still behind  the average damage of a level 11 fighter's  greataxe+GWM if they pop action surge (<a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/how-is-this-balanced.679547/post-8250450" target="_blank">honest, math's all here</a>) & the at will has been dramatically behind pretty much from day one of play.  A generic d12 cantrip also falls behind a fighter using their starting dagger & hield with no feats or class abilities to crank up the dagger as long as the fighter keeps up on strength or dex in this ridiculous matchup, things only get worse when you look at weapons & abilities people actually use when not looking for their gear n a prison break after finding a rusty knife &  the more common cantrips not so commonly resisted as toll the dead & poison sprayMost of these points I've already addressed with [USER=762]@Mort[/USER] but you raise a new one talking about how hey gained spells in 2e Frankly it's misleading at best.  the 2e dmg page 60 & 61 include quite a bit of detail on ways a wizard can be given spells & the spirit is deeply into just letting the player pick of collaborating with them to let them be awesome.  Here's a couple quotes "If you select the spells, be sure to give the player a fair mix, allowing him to do a variety of things. Try to ensure that the player has a few of the spells he really wants. If the character is a specialist in a particular school of magic, you should allow him to know one spell of his school automatically"& "players tend to pick the spells they consider the most powerful. While this is not bad if you have only one or two wizards, a whole horde of the fellows, all with identical spells, gets pretty boring."Monsters don' need to interrupt casters trying to cast "big" concentration spells because  frankly they probably ge a free save with no action cost every single round or in rare cases can use ac action to save if not outright just choose to end the effect with some spells.  Going to spontanious casting does help not being caught without a useful spell(my that's a low bar you've set), however it ignores the fact that so many spells are deliberately barely useful without highky contrived situationsI'm so freaking glad you brought up a 20th level wizard casting toll the dead immediately complaining about what fighters get from 11 on...  [spoiler="Let me help illustrate the answer"][ATTACH=full]135882[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]135883[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]135884[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]135885[/ATTACH]You brought up the level 20 wizard, that leaves you little room to complain about 11-19 when the fighter's already generally been ahead of that level 20 cantrip since level five or 11 with nearly every sane weapon choice other than dagger with nothing buffing the prison break shiv[/spoiler]now you won't need to wonder "Past 10th level, what does a fighter get?"</blockquote>

Verification