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Lightning Bolt should be better.
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<blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8253584" data-attributes="member: 18"><p>I dunno about "surpasses", I'm talking about "on-par", and we were talking PHB so stuff like Twilight or Forge would be excluded, and Moon is certainly included, whether people like it or not. Land is on-par with most of the Clerics, Moon is above all of the Clerics at certain levels. Tempest or War might be slightly ahead of Land on paper, but it's going to be a photo finish in actual gameplay.</p><p></p><p>Once you start adding in more books, I feel that, unless we're talking very specific archetypes (like Twilight Cleric, which I've also played), Druid is perhaps sliiiiightly better than Cleric in general, esp. with Tashas so shapeshifting is much less likely to get wasted (you can create a little familiar to go scout with it instead etc).</p><p></p><p>And frankly Goodberry alone is mad, given it can be used to turn left over spell slots directly into precise healing (good thing you can't upcast it because good lord!).</p><p></p><p>Personally the one I've been playing is the one from the 3PP Odyssey of the Dragonlords campaign, I forget the name, which I'd say is slightly above a Land Druid in power but well below a Moon Druid.</p><p></p><p>Druids in general are ranked as strong performers by virtually all analysis, and I've found this pans out in games. Clerics are decent too. I just think the idea that Druids are "subpar" is pretty ridiculous and smacks of a lack of both actual play experience and system mastery (not that the latter is required, but it is to be recommended to anyone making claims that classes are "subpar").</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ruin Explorer, post: 8253584, member: 18"] I dunno about "surpasses", I'm talking about "on-par", and we were talking PHB so stuff like Twilight or Forge would be excluded, and Moon is certainly included, whether people like it or not. Land is on-par with most of the Clerics, Moon is above all of the Clerics at certain levels. Tempest or War might be slightly ahead of Land on paper, but it's going to be a photo finish in actual gameplay. Once you start adding in more books, I feel that, unless we're talking very specific archetypes (like Twilight Cleric, which I've also played), Druid is perhaps sliiiiightly better than Cleric in general, esp. with Tashas so shapeshifting is much less likely to get wasted (you can create a little familiar to go scout with it instead etc). And frankly Goodberry alone is mad, given it can be used to turn left over spell slots directly into precise healing (good thing you can't upcast it because good lord!). Personally the one I've been playing is the one from the 3PP Odyssey of the Dragonlords campaign, I forget the name, which I'd say is slightly above a Land Druid in power but well below a Moon Druid. Druids in general are ranked as strong performers by virtually all analysis, and I've found this pans out in games. Clerics are decent too. I just think the idea that Druids are "subpar" is pretty ridiculous and smacks of a lack of both actual play experience and system mastery (not that the latter is required, but it is to be recommended to anyone making claims that classes are "subpar"). [/QUOTE]
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Lightning Bolt should be better.
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