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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kurotowa" data-source="post: 8028184" data-attributes="member: 27957">That is indeed another form of creativity. It's something I've enjoyed indulging in too. But we have to admit that it isn't for everyone. Lots of people just get overwhelmed if you're throwing multiple books at them and asking them to cross-reference material and sift through a mountain of permutations to try and find novel or optimal ones.I've got a player in my group who's working six days a week, on top of a wife and a 1yo baby, and they barely have time to sit down to play. Asking them to devote extra hours outside of game time is just not possible. I've got a player in my group who's there for the socialization not the tactical engagement. They recently retired a Cleric in favor of a Fighter because they were having zero fun trying to juggle all their spell options in combat.So what I'm saying is, none of us should mistake our own path to satisfaction for a universal thing. What makes D&D 5e our game of choice over PF 2e or 13th Age is that it does have the Champion Fighter for the guy who really just wants to make two attacks per round and nothing else. That range of character complexity is a major selling point.</blockquote>