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Message: <blockquote data-quote="the Jester" data-source="post: 5490459" data-attributes="member: 1210">If a monster's attack includes a push 1, why shouldn't the pcs be able to use the same arbitrary counter that you're using against Tide of Iron?If you let a monster get a bonus against being knocked prone because he's seen one of the pcs use a 'knock prone' at will a couple of times, do the pcs get that same bonus when they fight a pack of wolves? If not, why not? If so, whoops- those wolves lose a substantial amount of their combat ability.Limiting at wills like this is a terrible idea IMHO. It nerfs one of the biggest and best innovations of 4e. If you don't want your party's fighter to have anything to do other than "STAB STAB STAB", I'd look at 2nd or earlier editions as a more suitable ruleset- the whole 4e system is designed with a careful balance between pcs in mind, and if you take away or nerf the at will abilities of only a few classes- and I'm guessing you're not going to put some penalty on magic missile, scorching burst or other wizard spells- you're really kicking the legs out from under that balance. The trick to getting tide of iron to work is to hit. The fighter shouldn't have to jump through hoops to pull off what everyone else in the party can manage without any trouble.Also- no, there's not one specific way to perform a tide of iron. Maybe my fighter pushes his foe with his shield. Maybe the force of his blow pushes the enemy away. Maybe it's the fighter's intimidating advance that makes the enemy back off. Maybe it's a series of feints that keep moving the foe away from him. As usual with 4e powers, there are a million ways to flavor it. I think it's a terrible idea to say, "Oh, I can't visualize how that would work twice, so it won't." In a case like that I would be awfully tempted to tell the dm, "Don't blame me for your lack of imagination!"</blockquote>

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