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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 5562526" data-attributes="member: 87792">This isn't an echo chamber.  And his idea would have ended in tears.  He got the most useful response we could give even if not the one he wanted.  And also absolutely spamtastic.   Wait, what?  Then what the hell do those points of yours mean?  Other than forcing you to use your at wills more to try to save up points as well as use dailies.  Or turning you into a stuffed lemon. Knight, I choose you!  (Or thief, or slayer).  When there are classes built round the basic attacks this is going to have interesting consequences.  And I say unto you that you know not how to use 4e.  All versions of D&D have had mages able to cast in the length of time that it takes for people to swing a sword.  They are all much higher fantasy than almost any fiction I can think of.  The Grey Mouser is almost impossible in any version of D&D.Any version, that is, except 4e.  If you ban all spellcasting classes and just run with martial classes (and a few primal outliers), D&D 4e still works.  Magic becomes scary and the only spells the PCs can cast are rituals - which at the very least cost time and money - and may fail.  A medaeval fantasy game of 4e is therefore trivial - it just takes the hoserule "The only classes allowed are the Martial classes".  Mouser becomes a thief with the Ritual Caster feat.  And you get your medaeval fantasy and scary scary magic feel in a way you simply don't with older editions.  Blocking the PCs from combat magic makes it a whole lot more exotic and scary than it ever has been in the history of D&D.  And you don't need a cleric in a 4e party - a warlord will do the job or you can get by without a healer at all in a way that will leave you requiring bed rest all the time in older editions. Seriously, a party with only characters chosen from the knight, slayer, thief, scout, hunter, and warlord (possibly also Sentinel, Cavalier, Barbarian (no elemental powers), and Warden (likewise if possible)) will feel a lot more medaeval fantasy than anything there has ever been in D&D.</blockquote>

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