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<blockquote data-quote="Joshua Randall" data-source="post: 1594124" data-attributes="member: 7737">Some excellent suggestions here. Thanks to everyone who has posted.&nbsp;Great idea, and much more elegant than my clumsy solution. Consider this idea YOINKed.&nbsp;The fact that the low-level summon spells aren't a huge lose is precisely the point. I want the player to have to make a conscious choice of which PH spells he gives up in order to gain supplemental spells. It's too easy to give up the low-level summons with no real loss of power, while picking up some juicy, overpowered low-level spells from other sources (*cough*FRCS*cough*).&nbsp;However, under my proposed system, giving up summon monster i would mean giving up the whole chain. Thus, at higher levels, you would be giving up summoning bralani eladrin (vi), Huge elementals (vii), and celestial dire bears (viii) [my personal favorite].&nbsp;Definitely a workable idea, especially the part about requiring players to seek access to nonstandard spells from their church. However, my main purpose in limiting the number of spells per level is so that I do not have to approve individually each spell the player wants to add. I can simply tell the player, &quot;You can have 30 4th level spells&quot; and then let him sort out which ones they are.&nbsp;Expand upon this idea, please? I do not own Arcana Unearthed.&nbsp;I think wizards are a lot easier to handle, because other than the 2 free spells on level up, they only gain spells known when the DM lets them. The DM decides which arcane scrolls get placed in treasure hordes, which enemy spellbooks are recoverable (and what spells they contain), and whether NPC wizards allow PC wizards to trade with or copy spells from them.&nbsp;I have actually experimented with an earlier, cruder version of this system. It works pretty well in my experience. In fact, if you use something like the lenient numbers, then most clerics won't ever need to give up any PH spells -- they can just add a handful of supplemental spells per level to their lists.&nbsp;Anyway, thanks again for the comments!</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Joshua Randall, post: 1594124, member: 7737"] Some excellent suggestions here. Thanks to everyone who has posted. Great idea, and much more elegant than my clumsy solution. Consider this idea YOINKed. The fact that the low-level [i]summon[/i] spells aren't a huge lose is precisely the point. I want the player to have to make a conscious choice of which PH spells he gives up in order to gain supplemental spells. It's too easy to give up the low-level [i]summons[/i] with no real loss of power, while picking up some juicy, overpowered low-level spells from other sources (*cough*FRCS*cough*). However, under my proposed system, giving up [i]summon monster i[/i] would mean giving up the whole chain. Thus, at higher levels, you would be giving up summoning bralani eladrin ([i]vi[/i]), Huge elementals ([i]vii[/i]), and celestial dire bears ([i]viii[/i]) [my personal favorite]. Definitely a workable idea, especially the part about requiring players to seek access to nonstandard spells from their church. However, my main purpose in limiting the number of spells per level is so that I do [b]not[/b] have to approve individually each spell the player wants to add. I can simply tell the player, "You can have 30 4th level spells" and then let him sort out which ones they are. Expand upon this idea, please? I do not own [u]Arcana Unearthed[/u]. I think wizards are a lot easier to handle, because other than the 2 free spells on level up, they only gain spells known when the DM lets them. The DM decides which arcane scrolls get placed in treasure hordes, which enemy spellbooks are recoverable (and what spells they contain), and whether NPC wizards allow PC wizards to trade with or copy spells from them. I have actually experimented with an earlier, cruder version of this system. It works pretty well in my experience. In fact, if you use something like the lenient numbers, then most clerics won't ever need to give up any PH spells -- they can just add a handful of supplemental spells per level to their lists. Anyway, thanks again for the comments! [/QUOTE]

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