Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Limiting Short Rests to 2x/day
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 9132911" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>Mostly going to taslk 3.x but some 2e towards the end... It kinda was and was not attrition based but<strong> resource expenditure was much more meaningful</strong>. It's easy to look at some of the spells & say "omg this is insane", but the mechanics made it very different because every spell slot needed to be prepared individually & was not something you were generally capable of swapping to some other spell. </p><p></p><p>The best example I can give to explain is to describe one of those exceptions given to cleric. In 3.5 (maybe earlier?) a cleric could swap a cure wounds into some other prepared slot so they could prep say a 2nd level <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restorationLesser.htm" target="_blank">lesser restoration</a> & cast a second level <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cureModerateWounds.htm" target="_blank">cure moderate wounds</a>. Doing that meant the cleric couldn't cast lesser restoration with some other unused slot because it was probably devoted to a spell like <a href="https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bearsEndurance.htm" target="_blank">Bear's Endurance</a> or whatever.</p><p></p><p>With every slot assigned ahead of time it was easy (and common) to have a wizard or whatever prepare one of those very powerful spells & resist using it because they didn't feel that a particular encounter deserved their break glass in case of emergency spell. Likewise A spellcaster would almost always have some spells that just went unused that day after being prepped, especually spotlight drawing spells. One of the easiest ways for a spellcaster to get around that was to focus on spells that gave everyone else a brighter spotlight & there's a great video talking about that<a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTBpVGeJLzI" target="_blank"> here</a>.</p><p></p><p>With the spell prep differences that went with vancian spell casting along with limited & almost always nearly useless cantrips that leads into ways of coloring outside those lines with things like scrolls potions & wands like were mentioned in posts 193 & 195. Those absolutely existed, but the posts are misleading & only telling half the story. A spellcaster would often invest a good chunk of their share from the party's income in scribing scrolls (usually wizards because of the requirements to scribe a scroll). Casting from a scroll had a lot of downsides (lower DC/lower spellcaster level/etc) unless unrealistic amounts of gold were dumped into it to avoid some of the downsides the scroll brought & that meant a lot of those spell scrolls built up were niche spells scribed just in case that oddball situation comes up & they need to cast knock create water or whatever* even though the rogue could unlock stuff no cost & the ranger or druid could probably find water if the party needed to. <em>Sometimes</em> scrolls could serve to extend the spellcaster's stamina in how many fights or how strong a fight they could handle, but that was a job usually falling to wands.... Wizards spent many turns making a sling attack to preserve resources.</p><p></p><p>Wands like the ever present & well known wand of cure light wounds that's already been mentioned. Wands came from about 4ish places that came down to being two main sources (A:treasure/NPC granted quest rewards & B:buying/crafting.). In the case of treasure & quest rewards from NPCs or whatever it was ultimately a way for the GM to tune the difficulty on their campaign a bit by providing extra resources & what is provided can be withheld by the same whimsy the GM used providing them. Since everyone knew that the GM could simply not give out more of those awesome wands if they used them too recklessly there was some incentive to hold onto them or use them slowly rather than using them as quickly as possible just to avoid using that sling on zombies or whatever. </p><p></p><p>The second way of getting those wands was to buy or craft them, again the GM had a good bit of influence over what when & how much was available but again there was reason to avoid using gold to get wands for the ability to nova through the adventuring day because gold spent on wands was gold that could not be spent on helping to fund & round out the magic item churn PCs were expected to go through. That single 750gp first level wand might not be a huge dent in a PC's <a href="https://forums.dndarchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=8" target="_blank">wealth by level</a>, but burning through one every adventuring day or two would add up to a cripplingly eye watering value pretty quick.</p><p></p><p>2e was different in a lot of ways & sometimes even similar in others... but there are so many gigantic system differences that comparisons become very difficult. Even something as simple as what level a PC with X amount o f experience would be is a thing that differs from class to class just as how many spell slots a level N PC had or what they got experience from was going to differ depending on class. PCs were still vancian casters, death was much closer & so on. There was a lot of advice & lattitude given to GMs, but it wasn't always adversarial. The rules wanted your players to cooperatively succeed <em>with your help,</em> but those same rules & everyone at the table wasn't going to be too broken up if some of the PCs got killed off along the way. I remember the DMG even having a line saying something about how healing potions should be readily available for PCs to purchase as an easy example that doesn't need much insight into the edition mechanics or baselines.</p><p></p><p>* I picked those two spells for being easy to describe example that didn't need much context or description of edition specific differences</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 9132911, member: 93670"] Mostly going to taslk 3.x but some 2e towards the end... It kinda was and was not attrition based but[B] resource expenditure was much more meaningful[/B]. It's easy to look at some of the spells & say "omg this is insane", but the mechanics made it very different because every spell slot needed to be prepared individually & was not something you were generally capable of swapping to some other spell. The best example I can give to explain is to describe one of those exceptions given to cleric. In 3.5 (maybe earlier?) a cleric could swap a cure wounds into some other prepared slot so they could prep say a 2nd level [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/restorationLesser.htm']lesser restoration[/URL] & cast a second level [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cureModerateWounds.htm']cure moderate wounds[/URL]. Doing that meant the cleric couldn't cast lesser restoration with some other unused slot because it was probably devoted to a spell like [URL='https://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/bearsEndurance.htm']Bear's Endurance[/URL] or whatever. With every slot assigned ahead of time it was easy (and common) to have a wizard or whatever prepare one of those very powerful spells & resist using it because they didn't feel that a particular encounter deserved their break glass in case of emergency spell. Likewise A spellcaster would almost always have some spells that just went unused that day after being prepped, especually spotlight drawing spells. One of the easiest ways for a spellcaster to get around that was to focus on spells that gave everyone else a brighter spotlight & there's a great video talking about that[URL='https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTBpVGeJLzI'] here[/URL]. With the spell prep differences that went with vancian spell casting along with limited & almost always nearly useless cantrips that leads into ways of coloring outside those lines with things like scrolls potions & wands like were mentioned in posts 193 & 195. Those absolutely existed, but the posts are misleading & only telling half the story. A spellcaster would often invest a good chunk of their share from the party's income in scribing scrolls (usually wizards because of the requirements to scribe a scroll). Casting from a scroll had a lot of downsides (lower DC/lower spellcaster level/etc) unless unrealistic amounts of gold were dumped into it to avoid some of the downsides the scroll brought & that meant a lot of those spell scrolls built up were niche spells scribed just in case that oddball situation comes up & they need to cast knock create water or whatever* even though the rogue could unlock stuff no cost & the ranger or druid could probably find water if the party needed to. [I]Sometimes[/I] scrolls could serve to extend the spellcaster's stamina in how many fights or how strong a fight they could handle, but that was a job usually falling to wands.... Wizards spent many turns making a sling attack to preserve resources. Wands like the ever present & well known wand of cure light wounds that's already been mentioned. Wands came from about 4ish places that came down to being two main sources (A:treasure/NPC granted quest rewards & B:buying/crafting.). In the case of treasure & quest rewards from NPCs or whatever it was ultimately a way for the GM to tune the difficulty on their campaign a bit by providing extra resources & what is provided can be withheld by the same whimsy the GM used providing them. Since everyone knew that the GM could simply not give out more of those awesome wands if they used them too recklessly there was some incentive to hold onto them or use them slowly rather than using them as quickly as possible just to avoid using that sling on zombies or whatever. The second way of getting those wands was to buy or craft them, again the GM had a good bit of influence over what when & how much was available but again there was reason to avoid using gold to get wands for the ability to nova through the adventuring day because gold spent on wands was gold that could not be spent on helping to fund & round out the magic item churn PCs were expected to go through. That single 750gp first level wand might not be a huge dent in a PC's [URL='https://forums.dndarchive.com/viewtopic.php?t=8']wealth by level[/URL], but burning through one every adventuring day or two would add up to a cripplingly eye watering value pretty quick. 2e was different in a lot of ways & sometimes even similar in others... but there are so many gigantic system differences that comparisons become very difficult. Even something as simple as what level a PC with X amount o f experience would be is a thing that differs from class to class just as how many spell slots a level N PC had or what they got experience from was going to differ depending on class. PCs were still vancian casters, death was much closer & so on. There was a lot of advice & lattitude given to GMs, but it wasn't always adversarial. The rules wanted your players to cooperatively succeed [I]with your help,[/I] but those same rules & everyone at the table wasn't going to be too broken up if some of the PCs got killed off along the way. I remember the DMG even having a line saying something about how healing potions should be readily available for PCs to purchase as an easy example that doesn't need much insight into the edition mechanics or baselines. * I picked those two spells for being easy to describe example that didn't need much context or description of edition specific differences [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Limiting Short Rests to 2x/day
Top