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Line of Sight and Ethereal Plane
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<blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 7482410" data-attributes="member: 6787503"><p>The corner of your space is, without a doubt, not between your pupil and your eyelid. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Thanks for acknowledging that your character does indeed control a square space in combat. Now we can move forward with the conversation. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I hadn’t looked at the DMG in a while and was unaware the rule quoted by the OP is from a section on using miniatures, but I can see that. I don’t think the way line of sight dependent effects are adjudicated ought to vary depending on whether you use miniatures or not, and I don’t think you do either. So since line of sight remains basically undefined in the base game, let’s talk about its natural language meaning. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I disagree. This is Google's definition of <em>line of sight</em>: <p style="margin-left: 20px">a straight line along which an observer has unobstructed vision.</p><p>At the point you close your eyes, you're no longer an observer, so whether your view is obstructed no longer has any bearing on whether there is line of sight. The test of whether there is line of sight is if someone <em>with their eyes open</em> would have unobstructed vision in that particular location.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Well, it says if certain conditions are met then there is line of sight. There's no equivocation in that statement, but I realize this is a rule for miniatures use. I just happen to think it agrees very nicely with the natural language meaning.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I think there's a difference in meaning between "is within line of sight" and "can be seen". The designers of the game made liberal use of the latter in many cases, so if that's how they meant the frightened condition to read, they could have written it that way.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>You'll get no argument from me on any of these counts. My objection is mostly aesthetic in nature. If someone enjoys being able to turn off part of being frightened by closing their eyes, who am I to judge?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Hriston, post: 7482410, member: 6787503"] The corner of your space is, without a doubt, not between your pupil and your eyelid. Thanks for acknowledging that your character does indeed control a square space in combat. Now we can move forward with the conversation. I hadn’t looked at the DMG in a while and was unaware the rule quoted by the OP is from a section on using miniatures, but I can see that. I don’t think the way line of sight dependent effects are adjudicated ought to vary depending on whether you use miniatures or not, and I don’t think you do either. So since line of sight remains basically undefined in the base game, let’s talk about its natural language meaning. I disagree. This is Google's definition of [I]line of sight[/I]: [INDENT]a straight line along which an observer has unobstructed vision.[/INDENT] At the point you close your eyes, you're no longer an observer, so whether your view is obstructed no longer has any bearing on whether there is line of sight. The test of whether there is line of sight is if someone [I]with their eyes open[/I] would have unobstructed vision in that particular location. Well, it says if certain conditions are met then there is line of sight. There's no equivocation in that statement, but I realize this is a rule for miniatures use. I just happen to think it agrees very nicely with the natural language meaning. I think there's a difference in meaning between "is within line of sight" and "can be seen". The designers of the game made liberal use of the latter in many cases, so if that's how they meant the frightened condition to read, they could have written it that way. You'll get no argument from me on any of these counts. My objection is mostly aesthetic in nature. If someone enjoys being able to turn off part of being frightened by closing their eyes, who am I to judge? [/QUOTE]
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