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lingering high jump
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<blockquote data-quote="FatherTome" data-source="post: 4076100" data-attributes="member: 50815"><p>I address this later in the post. Charging is the only option available to PCs or monsters without a fly speed or feats that change the way movement interacts with attacks. They still are forced to spend one or more move actions (depending on their base land speed and how high they jumped) to complete their jump.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is not an example of "voluntary movement". The mechanics of jump are very specific in regards to what happens when a jump check is completed but there isn't enough movement left to finish the jump: The PC ends his/her turn in mid-air and must spend actions to complete the jump before he can take any other actions.</p><p></p><p>This gets ridiculous when dealing with unreasonably high jump checks, however. There was an example on the Wizards (now Gleemax) forums some time ago that demonstrated how an ECL 20 Thri-Kreen monk could obtain a ridiculously high jump check - I don't remember offhand, but let's say, for the sake of argument, that it was +400. A monk, with land speed of 70', who decides to perform a 400-foot jump, will spend three full turns completing the jump (total distance is at least 420', counting the 20' run-up, and it would take 6 move actions to come up with a total distance of equal to or greater than 420', or three turns). During this time the monk reaches a height of 100' at the midpoint of his jump, and unless he is somehow prevented from completing his movement (by running into a wall of force, or having some sort of barrier put up to impede his progress), he can take no actions except to complete his jump.</p><p></p><p>Ordinarily, in earth gravity, a creature which is at rest and then falls for six seconds travels a total distance of approximately 550 feet after the first six seconds. The monk takes nine seconds (three actions) to reach a height of 100 feet, but then takes another nine seconds (the other three actions) to descent that same 100 feet again. This actually grows slightly more surreal as a creature with extraordinarily low land speed (for example, 10') will take two full minutes to make the same jump, and will gently float through the air while doing so.</p><p></p><p>The mental image this provides is not unlike the prodigiously graceful leaps from <em>Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon</em>.</p><p></p><p>That same creature, however, when confronted with a pit trap and having failed the appropriate Reflex save, will plummet like the proverbial boulder and drop ~550', or hit the bottom if the pit is mercifully shallower.</p><p></p><p>To reference your trapdoor example again, this is an example of involuntary movement. A jump check is voluntary movement. A PC (or NPC, or monster) does not spend movement when moved involuntarily. A flying creature blown back by a wind effect, a creature bull rushed, etc., do not count the distance moved as part of their movement limit for the round. Falling doesn't take an action. Jumping, however, is voluntary movement and costs actions to perform.</p><p></p><p></p><p>As an aside, some types of involuntary movement do not provoke attacks of opportunity - one example is the Improved Grab special ability, which moves the grappled opponent into the attacker's space, rather than the normal order of things where the attacker moves into the opponent's space during a grapple. On the other hand, Bull Rush explicitly states that the opponent provokes attacks of opportunity when he is pushed back.</p><p></p><p>Jumping down from a height is a special jump action which, according to the rules, is a DC 15 jump check - this is a check to reduce the damage taken from a fall. If a character is attempting to jump a long distance (for example, off the edge of a chasm to a lower cave on the other side) he still needs to make a separate jump check in order to determine whether he clears the distance - the DC 15 "jump from a height" skill check simply determines whether he takes less damage (or none) from the fall. This is voluntary movement and follows the rules above, including the "strange floating man" syndrome for very high jump checks combined with low land speeds. Note that even if it takes two minutes for a PC to jump a distance that includes landing 100 feet lower, the PC still takes falling damage appropriate to the height.</p><p></p><p>On the other hand, it's possible to jump down a height without making a check besides the DC 15 check to reduce the damage. This is voluntary movement up until the PC steps off the wall/cliff/chasm, at which point the PC falls the remaining distance (or 550', whichever is smaller if you're using that rule). It's probably recommended for the DM to say that this also renders the PC prone, since they did not make a jump check to move the distance, unless they have a feat/magical effect that says otherwise, and probably also ends the PC's turn.</p><p></p><p>This is to prevent PCs from taking a 5' step off a cliff, falling 550' feet, landing next to a monster, and full attacking.</p><p></p><p>Much of this is subject to debate, however, and this is simply my opinion of how the mechanics work. It is probably better to rule on a case-by-case basis and use some common sense (for example, with pit traps and the Looney Toons-esque image of Wile E. Coyote hanging above a cliff before his turn comes up in the initiative order and he falls to the canyon floor below).</p><p></p><p></p><p>... It occurs to me that I probably need some sleep.</p><p></p><p>Anyways, take it with a grain of salt.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="FatherTome, post: 4076100, member: 50815"] I address this later in the post. Charging is the only option available to PCs or monsters without a fly speed or feats that change the way movement interacts with attacks. They still are forced to spend one or more move actions (depending on their base land speed and how high they jumped) to complete their jump. This is not an example of "voluntary movement". The mechanics of jump are very specific in regards to what happens when a jump check is completed but there isn't enough movement left to finish the jump: The PC ends his/her turn in mid-air and must spend actions to complete the jump before he can take any other actions. This gets ridiculous when dealing with unreasonably high jump checks, however. There was an example on the Wizards (now Gleemax) forums some time ago that demonstrated how an ECL 20 Thri-Kreen monk could obtain a ridiculously high jump check - I don't remember offhand, but let's say, for the sake of argument, that it was +400. A monk, with land speed of 70', who decides to perform a 400-foot jump, will spend three full turns completing the jump (total distance is at least 420', counting the 20' run-up, and it would take 6 move actions to come up with a total distance of equal to or greater than 420', or three turns). During this time the monk reaches a height of 100' at the midpoint of his jump, and unless he is somehow prevented from completing his movement (by running into a wall of force, or having some sort of barrier put up to impede his progress), he can take no actions except to complete his jump. Ordinarily, in earth gravity, a creature which is at rest and then falls for six seconds travels a total distance of approximately 550 feet after the first six seconds. The monk takes nine seconds (three actions) to reach a height of 100 feet, but then takes another nine seconds (the other three actions) to descent that same 100 feet again. This actually grows slightly more surreal as a creature with extraordinarily low land speed (for example, 10') will take two full minutes to make the same jump, and will gently float through the air while doing so. The mental image this provides is not unlike the prodigiously graceful leaps from [i]Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon[/i]. That same creature, however, when confronted with a pit trap and having failed the appropriate Reflex save, will plummet like the proverbial boulder and drop ~550', or hit the bottom if the pit is mercifully shallower. To reference your trapdoor example again, this is an example of involuntary movement. A jump check is voluntary movement. A PC (or NPC, or monster) does not spend movement when moved involuntarily. A flying creature blown back by a wind effect, a creature bull rushed, etc., do not count the distance moved as part of their movement limit for the round. Falling doesn't take an action. Jumping, however, is voluntary movement and costs actions to perform. As an aside, some types of involuntary movement do not provoke attacks of opportunity - one example is the Improved Grab special ability, which moves the grappled opponent into the attacker's space, rather than the normal order of things where the attacker moves into the opponent's space during a grapple. On the other hand, Bull Rush explicitly states that the opponent provokes attacks of opportunity when he is pushed back. Jumping down from a height is a special jump action which, according to the rules, is a DC 15 jump check - this is a check to reduce the damage taken from a fall. If a character is attempting to jump a long distance (for example, off the edge of a chasm to a lower cave on the other side) he still needs to make a separate jump check in order to determine whether he clears the distance - the DC 15 "jump from a height" skill check simply determines whether he takes less damage (or none) from the fall. This is voluntary movement and follows the rules above, including the "strange floating man" syndrome for very high jump checks combined with low land speeds. Note that even if it takes two minutes for a PC to jump a distance that includes landing 100 feet lower, the PC still takes falling damage appropriate to the height. On the other hand, it's possible to jump down a height without making a check besides the DC 15 check to reduce the damage. This is voluntary movement up until the PC steps off the wall/cliff/chasm, at which point the PC falls the remaining distance (or 550', whichever is smaller if you're using that rule). It's probably recommended for the DM to say that this also renders the PC prone, since they did not make a jump check to move the distance, unless they have a feat/magical effect that says otherwise, and probably also ends the PC's turn. This is to prevent PCs from taking a 5' step off a cliff, falling 550' feet, landing next to a monster, and full attacking. Much of this is subject to debate, however, and this is simply my opinion of how the mechanics work. It is probably better to rule on a case-by-case basis and use some common sense (for example, with pit traps and the Looney Toons-esque image of Wile E. Coyote hanging above a cliff before his turn comes up in the initiative order and he falls to the canyon floor below). ... It occurs to me that I probably need some sleep. Anyways, take it with a grain of salt. [/QUOTE]
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