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<blockquote data-quote="Felix" data-source="post: 3396180" data-attributes="member: 3929">No.If he is pretty, then he is pretty because of his high CHA. He also enjoys bonus spells because of a high CHA.They both have the same cause, though they are not themselves in a causal relationship with each other. An internal combustion engine produces forward momentum in a car and also produces heat: the heat released does not produce forward momentum, nor does being pretty provide bonus spells.Yes, he gets his bonus spells from high CHA. As aparrently he gets his&nbsp; beauty from. And this player's understanding of CHA seems to mirror yours.Which I never did claim...If physical beauty has multiple causes, two possibilities being &quot;high Charisma&quot; and &quot;player whining&quot;, but neither cause is necessary for physical beauty, then it becomes possible to have beauty without charisma as long as an alternative cause is present. And yet charisma and beauty are still linked because Charisma is a possible source of beauty, regardless of weather or not it causes it in every circumstance.Consider &quot;Winning the Superbowl&quot; having two possible causes: &quot;Best Offense&quot; and &quot;Best Defense&quot;. You can win the bowl with either, but you don't have to have both or either one in particular. In this way, a bowl-winning team can win without the best offense.A bowl winning team can win without the best defense.A team with the best offense can lose at the superbowl.A team with the best defense can lose at the superbowl.Do you suggest that having the best offense and the best defense is not linked to winning the superbowl simply because there does not exist a direct causal relationship?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Felix, post: 3396180, member: 3929"] No. [i]If[/i] he is pretty, then he is pretty because of his high CHA. He also enjoys bonus spells because of a high CHA. They both have the same cause, though they are not themselves in a causal relationship with each other. An internal combustion engine produces forward momentum in a car and also produces heat: the heat released does not produce forward momentum, nor does being pretty provide bonus spells. Yes, he gets his bonus spells from high CHA. As aparrently he gets his beauty from. And this player's understanding of CHA seems to mirror yours. Which I never did claim... If physical beauty has multiple causes, two possibilities being "high Charisma" and "player whining", but neither cause is [i]necessary[/i] for physical beauty, then it becomes possible to have beauty without charisma as long as an alternative cause is present. And yet charisma and beauty are still linked because Charisma is a possible source of beauty, regardless of weather or not it causes it in every circumstance. Consider "Winning the Superbowl" having two possible causes: "Best Offense" and "Best Defense". You can win the bowl with either, but you don't have to have both or either one in particular. In this way, a bowl-winning team can win without the best offense. A bowl winning team can win without the best defense. A team with the best offense can lose at the superbowl. A team with the best defense can lose at the superbowl. Do you suggest that having the best offense and the best defense is not linked to winning the superbowl simply because there does not exist a direct causal relationship? [/QUOTE]

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