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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Khaalis" data-source="post: 1393303" data-attributes="member: 2167">My only issue is the acquisition of any spell level early. Even if it is just the bloodline spell. It throws off the balance factor between Sorcerer and all the other casters. It also (though I hate this point as a balance factor) lets them enter PrC’s earlier than designed when the PrC is based on Spell Level access.My mistake. I was under the impression you were not only reducing Spells Casts Per day by One but also Spells Known.I thought you were doing this…Spells Known1…..3+B…..1+BSpells Cast1…..4+B…..2+BWhich is why I thought you were limiting spells known be “forcing” the sorcerer to take one of their spell’s known as a bloodline spell.  Instead you are granting it as if it were a true clerical Domain Spell. They cannot cast the spell normally, they don’t know it. They can only cast it once per day as a Spell-Like Ability? Correct?I guess the wording could use a little brush-up, or maybe I just can’t read. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Its not a bad idea. Don’t get me wrong. What you did with the familiar is fine. Is I said before I just think the Familiar concept as-is kinda sucks. It doesn’t thrill me and I don’t see its true link to the wizard much less the sorcerer. I have from day one House Ruled it that Wiz/Sor could swap out the familiar for a feat (or two if low end feats).  JMHO.  What you did for it works if you want to keep the familiar as a core idea.  From a “fix” point of view, my only argument against the familiar is that it falls to the exclusivity of the wizard IMHO. The summoning ritual involved in acquiring a familiar is definitely something that would fall under the guise of dedicated magical study and research (aka Knowledge [Arcana]), and we both already know my viewpoint on that… see below.If I really wanted to focus on familiars for the sorcerer, I would make them more of an animal companion myself or make them truly special by using the many feats out there. I might let them begin with Improved Familiar (but at a modest level decline from the core feat). For example allowing special familiars to be gained 2 levels lower than normal. Then possibly allow them to gain access to some of the other Familiar enhancement feats out there. But again, familiars just don’t thrill me.Yeah I found this after going home and digging through the books. It is part of Monte’s Alt.Sorcerer core description. I have incorporated it into my build as well. Since sorcerers aren’t the greatest Item creators, this gives them an XP sink to more match a Wizard’s Scribe Scroll XP sink. Very Balancing.The only issue here is that the ability is gained at 4th level. Most PrC’s a sorcerer can gain access to are not available until 4th or 6th sorcerer level, so they will already have achieved this ability anyway. Which is why I believe it was just included as part of how spells work rather than as a level delineated class ability.  Spell Swapping is a necessity for the sorcerer to make it a viable and balanced option. No one wants to play a class where they get stuck with crappy spells they can no longer utilize.  I see your argument for making it more class ability restrictive but I think the core rule already does this. JMHO. Let me know how it  works out for you. I see nothing wrong with granting some clerical spells to the sorcerer if it truly fits the bloodline. Even the UA Arcane Domains dip into the other spell lists occasionally. What I personally disagree with, is having a bunch of sorcerers running around casting healing spells. Can it happen, yes in specific cases but it needs to be controlled or you destroy the need for divine casters.On Knowledge (Arcana)In MHO you are exactly correct here Liquid. Sorcerers should NOT get Knowledge (Arcana). For those that have not seen my running threads on the sorcerer, here is my logic on why Not.The arguments against Knowledge (Arcana) as a class skill:From the Sorcerer flavor text…<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">“Since Sorcerers gain their powers without undergoing the years of rigorous study that Wizards go through, they don’t have the background of arcane knowledge that most Wizard’s have. However they have more time to learn to fighting skills.”</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">“Sorcerers have no sense of identity as a group. Unlike Wizards, they gain little by sharing their knowledge and have no strong incentive to work together.”</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">“A Sorcerer’s power is inborn, and part of his soul. Sorcerers cast spells through innate power rather than through carefully trained skills. Their magic is intuitive rather than logical. For Sorcerers, magic is an intuitive art, not a science.”</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">“Sorcerers create magic the way a poet creates poems, with inborn talent honed by practice. They have no books, no mentors, no theories – just raw power that they direct at will.” </li> </ul>The Knowledge skill is defined in the rules as:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">“Knowledge represents a study of some body of lore, possibly an academic or even scientific discipline.” </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">“The {Knowledge skill} check represents what you know, and thinking about a topic a second time doesn’t let you know something you never learned in the first place.” </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">“An untrained knowledge check is simply an Intelligence check. Without actual training, a character only knows common knowledge.” </li> </ul>Good luck with this. I hope it works out the way you plan. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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