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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
List of Potential New Martial Practices
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7302341" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Well, in terms of the feat cost... I tend to talk about how things work in my own design, in which 'feat cost' isn't really a thing anymore. Although one could complain something like "hey, I liked being 4th level and when I got the ability to use 'practices' I was suddenly 5th level, what gives!!!!???" It just is such a weird sort of conversation, it never seems to happen. I recognize however that in some sense you could say "well, some boons aren't as good as others" perhaps, but then again I think the way to fix that is to make better subsystems! </p><p></p><p>The upshot being, in HoML at least, you generally can just go ahead and use whatever narrative logic you wish, but having a 'ritual' or whatever is explicit permission, otherwise you might still justify most anything I suppose, but it won't be quite so easy (and I note that boons, in the sense that they are like feats/themes/pps/etc also provide plenty of such hooks without 'practices'). Anyway, most characters can acquire some sort of practices without needing some 'feat-like' justification, they're minor boons. We've adopted a much less structured approach to 'enabler' types of mechanics (you must have X before you can get Y). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, and that's what I've worked at. I mean, we started out at the point of 'martial characters got shafted' in the ritual concept, they are all explicitly magical spells. 4e rituals CAN be accessed by anyone at a feat cost and so its not a big deal, you can have your magical fighter if you want. There was, however, always this area of things that skills 'covered' but powers didn't (and couldn't, given the vast range of possible things you could try). I think practices were spawned originally by a desire to allow players to assert some particular 'not formally magical' abilities with their skills. Of course it inevitably runs into the 'extra vs default' pitfall that all such things inevitably will (and most skill systems in RPGs fall completely into). </p><p></p><p>I've simply attempted to carve out a sort of 'grey area' where something like 'procedures' (rituals, MPs, Alchemy, etc) can exist. They're not powers, and you don't strictly NEED them, but you can gain them (and not as a restricted 'slotted' resource) and use them as a sort of stronger version of 'color' for your character. "Hey, we need to travel to Zangdorf Isle, instead of using a Nature check to see if we navigate the boat I'll use my fly ritual and replace that with an Arcana check".</p><p></p><p>You are correct that RC-level SCs in 4e specifically allow for the possibility of something spending a surge to guarantee a success (or turn a failure into a success IIRC). This does align with HoML's 'procedure' utilization rule where you can lock in a success with a VP expenditure when you can justify it with a procedure. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, it was more of an aside. </p><p></p><p>Anyway, you've got me thinking, and I think that 'procedure' 'ritual' and even 'practice' are maybe the wrong words to use. These things might best be called 'techniques'. They aren't necessarily invoked using some involved process, some of them could well apply in any situation practically like a feat benefit (though I think I'd prefer the 'do something ahead of time to enable this' model generally). </p><p></p><p>My thoughts on this whole thing definitely evolve over time. I've tried a lot of different ideas out, on paper if nothing else, but I think this is getting me to someplace. Not quite where Garthanos is at, but somewhere...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7302341, member: 82106"] Well, in terms of the feat cost... I tend to talk about how things work in my own design, in which 'feat cost' isn't really a thing anymore. Although one could complain something like "hey, I liked being 4th level and when I got the ability to use 'practices' I was suddenly 5th level, what gives!!!!???" It just is such a weird sort of conversation, it never seems to happen. I recognize however that in some sense you could say "well, some boons aren't as good as others" perhaps, but then again I think the way to fix that is to make better subsystems! The upshot being, in HoML at least, you generally can just go ahead and use whatever narrative logic you wish, but having a 'ritual' or whatever is explicit permission, otherwise you might still justify most anything I suppose, but it won't be quite so easy (and I note that boons, in the sense that they are like feats/themes/pps/etc also provide plenty of such hooks without 'practices'). Anyway, most characters can acquire some sort of practices without needing some 'feat-like' justification, they're minor boons. We've adopted a much less structured approach to 'enabler' types of mechanics (you must have X before you can get Y). Yes, and that's what I've worked at. I mean, we started out at the point of 'martial characters got shafted' in the ritual concept, they are all explicitly magical spells. 4e rituals CAN be accessed by anyone at a feat cost and so its not a big deal, you can have your magical fighter if you want. There was, however, always this area of things that skills 'covered' but powers didn't (and couldn't, given the vast range of possible things you could try). I think practices were spawned originally by a desire to allow players to assert some particular 'not formally magical' abilities with their skills. Of course it inevitably runs into the 'extra vs default' pitfall that all such things inevitably will (and most skill systems in RPGs fall completely into). I've simply attempted to carve out a sort of 'grey area' where something like 'procedures' (rituals, MPs, Alchemy, etc) can exist. They're not powers, and you don't strictly NEED them, but you can gain them (and not as a restricted 'slotted' resource) and use them as a sort of stronger version of 'color' for your character. "Hey, we need to travel to Zangdorf Isle, instead of using a Nature check to see if we navigate the boat I'll use my fly ritual and replace that with an Arcana check". You are correct that RC-level SCs in 4e specifically allow for the possibility of something spending a surge to guarantee a success (or turn a failure into a success IIRC). This does align with HoML's 'procedure' utilization rule where you can lock in a success with a VP expenditure when you can justify it with a procedure. Yeah, it was more of an aside. Anyway, you've got me thinking, and I think that 'procedure' 'ritual' and even 'practice' are maybe the wrong words to use. These things might best be called 'techniques'. They aren't necessarily invoked using some involved process, some of them could well apply in any situation practically like a feat benefit (though I think I'd prefer the 'do something ahead of time to enable this' model generally). My thoughts on this whole thing definitely evolve over time. I've tried a lot of different ideas out, on paper if nothing else, but I think this is getting me to someplace. Not quite where Garthanos is at, but somewhere... [/QUOTE]
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