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List of Problem 3.5e spells? Where?
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<blockquote data-quote="James McMurray" data-source="post: 1279273" data-attributes="member: 743"><p>And how exactly do you propoe that this be done? Given the extreme versatility of Wish, its utterly impossible to spell out beforehand how different wishes will be interpreted by evil creatures forced into granting them.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Where did the character go to look it up? And if he does decide to try that, then he'll learn the har way that it isn't good to try to force an evil creature to grant you wishes. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite8" alt=":D" title="Big grin :D" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":D" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And having evil creatures twist wishes they are forced to make isn't a fix? My party has gotten a wish from an efreet in the past. They freed it from its bounds and gained two wishes. The first they used to wish away a statue that was in the room. They knew there was a seret door behind it but were afraid of a trap. The efreet teleported the statue to a nearby city, aproximately 500' in the air above a temple of a god the efreet didn't like.</p><p></p><p>The second wish was for an item capable of harming the creature that had captured the efreet in he first place. A permanent item was beyond the bounds of the wish spell, so he gave them a mace. When the mace struck the demilich they were hunting down it exploded, dealing no damage to the party but lots of damage tot he demilich.</p><p></p><p>See, when getting wishes from evil, you have to assume that the creature will always try to fulfill its own agenda while granting the wish.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>What? You meant hat gating in an extremely powerful evil creature and foring it into servitude could be a dangerous endeavor? Wow! I can see where you'd think that would be just plain silly. <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite11" alt=":rolleyes:" title="Roll eyes :rolleyes:" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":rolleyes:" /></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The first wouldn't be allowed, because it doesn't involve carrying out the order given. The second is ok. If the dragon can arrange it so that both summoner and target are in the area of its breath, it not only can, but it should. The summoner may want to use their next command to clarify that they and their party not be hurt in the process. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The spell is only worthless if you gate in extrmely powerful evil creatures and force them to do your bidding. Or if you gate in extremely powerful good creatures and try to force them to do evil. Basically, if you gate in a creature for something it wouldn't mind doing (a celestial to fight demons for instance) then you won't have any problems. As my party has learned though, don't gate in extrmely powerful creatures for trivial reasons. They once gated ina Solar to fight a few demons. The battle was over less than 2 rounds later and the Solar hadn't needed to be there. While the party was in a future battle the Solar gated the cleric of the group out (the one that had done the summoning) and forced him to stand in the corner while hi friends fought and died. He then told the cleric not to summon his kind again for any but the most urgent of tasks.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Just because you can overreact doesn't mean that I am or that anyone else is. I personally don't think that the gate spell in 3.5 is badly worded or in need of fixing. All that it needs is a logical application of the principal that all causes have effects. Gating ina creature is a cause with extremely varied effects depending upon the creature and the task assigned.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="James McMurray, post: 1279273, member: 743"] And how exactly do you propoe that this be done? Given the extreme versatility of Wish, its utterly impossible to spell out beforehand how different wishes will be interpreted by evil creatures forced into granting them. Where did the character go to look it up? And if he does decide to try that, then he'll learn the har way that it isn't good to try to force an evil creature to grant you wishes. :D And having evil creatures twist wishes they are forced to make isn't a fix? My party has gotten a wish from an efreet in the past. They freed it from its bounds and gained two wishes. The first they used to wish away a statue that was in the room. They knew there was a seret door behind it but were afraid of a trap. The efreet teleported the statue to a nearby city, aproximately 500' in the air above a temple of a god the efreet didn't like. The second wish was for an item capable of harming the creature that had captured the efreet in he first place. A permanent item was beyond the bounds of the wish spell, so he gave them a mace. When the mace struck the demilich they were hunting down it exploded, dealing no damage to the party but lots of damage tot he demilich. See, when getting wishes from evil, you have to assume that the creature will always try to fulfill its own agenda while granting the wish. What? You meant hat gating in an extremely powerful evil creature and foring it into servitude could be a dangerous endeavor? Wow! I can see where you'd think that would be just plain silly. :rolleyes: The first wouldn't be allowed, because it doesn't involve carrying out the order given. The second is ok. If the dragon can arrange it so that both summoner and target are in the area of its breath, it not only can, but it should. The summoner may want to use their next command to clarify that they and their party not be hurt in the process. The spell is only worthless if you gate in extrmely powerful evil creatures and force them to do your bidding. Or if you gate in extremely powerful good creatures and try to force them to do evil. Basically, if you gate in a creature for something it wouldn't mind doing (a celestial to fight demons for instance) then you won't have any problems. As my party has learned though, don't gate in extrmely powerful creatures for trivial reasons. They once gated ina Solar to fight a few demons. The battle was over less than 2 rounds later and the Solar hadn't needed to be there. While the party was in a future battle the Solar gated the cleric of the group out (the one that had done the summoning) and forced him to stand in the corner while hi friends fought and died. He then told the cleric not to summon his kind again for any but the most urgent of tasks. Just because you can overreact doesn't mean that I am or that anyone else is. I personally don't think that the gate spell in 3.5 is badly worded or in need of fixing. All that it needs is a logical application of the principal that all causes have effects. Gating ina creature is a cause with extremely varied effects depending upon the creature and the task assigned. [/QUOTE]
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