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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 718242" data-attributes="member: 4937">Well, I happen to think that a hovering creature would be pretty darn loud.   Even a medium creature has a 12' wingspread.   First, let's separate difficulty in hearing it from difficulty in pin pointing it by sound alone.   What is the DC to hear it?Well, it should be clear that certain things have a DC to hear them of MUCH less than 0.   For instance, the sound of a unmuffled shotgun at 5' has a DC check of about -400 if the rule regarding +1 per 10' holds.   However, such a rule clearly doesn't scale well over great distances and results in something that can clearly be heard at a mile, not being hear 100 yards further on.   A better rule might be +1 per 10' out to 200', then +1 per 100' out to 2200', then +1 per 1000' out to 22200' and so on.Under that rule, the DC of hearing a rifle shot at 5' scales to a more manageable -43.   A thunderclap has a DC of closer to -60.Clearly, however a hovering dragon is not a loud as a shotgun, or at least it wouldn't seem reasonable for it to be that loud.  On the grounds that dragons are often said to have 'wings like a hurricane', I suppose you could claim a big dragon was as loud as a helicopter and that would get us back in the range of shotgun.How loud is it?  I don't know.   I personally like the number DC -10 at a distance equal to the size of the dragon.   Therefore, pinpointing the location of a 40' long dragon, 40' away from you requires a DC 10 listen check.  A 5' long dragon, also 40' away from you requires a DC 14 listen check.   Where did these numbers come from?  They happen to produce numbers whose range I like, and that's good enough for me.If the dragon glided, rather than hovering, then I think the DC would go up by at least 10.   So to hear a 40' dragon swooping down on you 150' away requires a DC 11 listen check, but to actually pinpoint its location requires a 31.</blockquote>

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