Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Listen up you little dice monkies
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="orsal" data-source="post: 1737508" data-attributes="member: 16016"><p>Here's an exercise I occasionally give my intro prob/stats students: I give them three sequences of H's and T's, all the same length (at least 60 tosses), and ask them which of the three was a simulated coin toss. In acutality, one of them is a simulated toss of a fair coin (independent probabilities, 0.5 for each), one is a simulated toss of a weighted coin (independent, but tails significantly more likely than heads), and the third is cooked so that heads will more often be followed by tails, and vice versa. (I'll suppose they're given in that order, although I actually change the order from time to time.)</p><p></p><p>The first thing nearly everyone looks for is the total number of heads and tails. They (correctly) expect close to half of each, and on that basis rule out sequence #2. It's harder to choose between #1 and #3, but the most common criterion used is long homogeneous strings. A lot of students will look at #1 and decide that there's a string of consecutive H's or consecutive T's that's suspiciously long. #3, of course, is cooked up to avoid long homogeneous strings, and to most people that "feels" more random. It's a surprise to learn that randomness generally does produce patterns of all kinds writ small. Toss a coin enough times, and you will at some point get 289 consecutive heads. A string of 7 consecutive H's or 7 consecutive T's happens one time in 64; if you toss 70 coins, there are 64 strings of 7 consecutive tosses, and on average one of them will be homogeneous. It's more complicated to calculate the actual probability of getting at least one homogeneous string, but it's better than even.</p><p></p><p>So the very feature that should suggest that #3 is not truly random, is what leads most people to guess it is. The situation would get even worse if I asked you to write down a pseudo-random string of H's and T's off the top of your head. (Well, maybe not if I asked you. Maybe you're weird. But if I asked almost anybody.) I'd likely never see more than three consecutive H's or T's. People's attempts to imitate randomness invariably err by producing too much alternation.</p><p></p><p>Likewise, if you tossed a d6 100 times, chances are you'd get 2-3 homogeneous runs of 3 (of anything), since the probability that a particular run of three tosses will be homogeneous is 1/36, there are 98 runs of three, and 98/36=2.7 But if I asked someone (who hasn't read this post or anything similar) to write down 100 numbers from 1-6 "as if they came from a die", I'd bet I'd not see a single 3-in-a-row.</p><p></p><p>Note that if you roll a fair d6 100 times, any *specific* result is as likely as any other. But there are some *patterns* that suggest non-randomness, and studiously avoiding patterns such as homogeneous streaks leads to a different kind of pattern which is just as improbable.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="orsal, post: 1737508, member: 16016"] Here's an exercise I occasionally give my intro prob/stats students: I give them three sequences of H's and T's, all the same length (at least 60 tosses), and ask them which of the three was a simulated coin toss. In acutality, one of them is a simulated toss of a fair coin (independent probabilities, 0.5 for each), one is a simulated toss of a weighted coin (independent, but tails significantly more likely than heads), and the third is cooked so that heads will more often be followed by tails, and vice versa. (I'll suppose they're given in that order, although I actually change the order from time to time.) The first thing nearly everyone looks for is the total number of heads and tails. They (correctly) expect close to half of each, and on that basis rule out sequence #2. It's harder to choose between #1 and #3, but the most common criterion used is long homogeneous strings. A lot of students will look at #1 and decide that there's a string of consecutive H's or consecutive T's that's suspiciously long. #3, of course, is cooked up to avoid long homogeneous strings, and to most people that "feels" more random. It's a surprise to learn that randomness generally does produce patterns of all kinds writ small. Toss a coin enough times, and you will at some point get 289 consecutive heads. A string of 7 consecutive H's or 7 consecutive T's happens one time in 64; if you toss 70 coins, there are 64 strings of 7 consecutive tosses, and on average one of them will be homogeneous. It's more complicated to calculate the actual probability of getting at least one homogeneous string, but it's better than even. So the very feature that should suggest that #3 is not truly random, is what leads most people to guess it is. The situation would get even worse if I asked you to write down a pseudo-random string of H's and T's off the top of your head. (Well, maybe not if I asked you. Maybe you're weird. But if I asked almost anybody.) I'd likely never see more than three consecutive H's or T's. People's attempts to imitate randomness invariably err by producing too much alternation. Likewise, if you tossed a d6 100 times, chances are you'd get 2-3 homogeneous runs of 3 (of anything), since the probability that a particular run of three tosses will be homogeneous is 1/36, there are 98 runs of three, and 98/36=2.7 But if I asked someone (who hasn't read this post or anything similar) to write down 100 numbers from 1-6 "as if they came from a die", I'd bet I'd not see a single 3-in-a-row. Note that if you roll a fair d6 100 times, any *specific* result is as likely as any other. But there are some *patterns* that suggest non-randomness, and studiously avoiding patterns such as homogeneous streaks leads to a different kind of pattern which is just as improbable. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Listen up you little dice monkies
Top