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<blockquote data-quote="Dyir" data-source="post: 5589842" data-attributes="member: 13293">I will admit to being the youngling of this discussion: my first exposure to D&amp;D was at the end of 2E.&nbsp; At the time, from what I can remember, the gods were almost always presented as &quot;so powerful that you have no hope of even harming them in any way, so stats are meaningless.&quot;&nbsp; And then once 3E actually gave them stats, they were ridiculous 20HD + 60 class levels + insane abilities (one of which was wish at will!).&nbsp; So, encountering 4E's &quot;you can actually kill them now&quot; is still somewhat novel to me.&nbsp; I admit that I mentally add abilities that have no direct importance to the plot to the statblocks of my NPCs, since in 4E stats are largely only for the parts of the NPC that the players interact with, so my perspective might be skewed.I would also agree that it works as a decent guideline, especially since D&amp;D does not have a method or player character to continue to gain abilities but remain at the same &quot;scope&quot; of Tier: the magic and monsters seem to kind of assume an escalation of the level of threat and control over their destinies.&nbsp; And I tend to imagine Tiers more in how much influence the characters have over their universe, but describing it in terms of &quot;threat&quot; feels easier in the context of a roleplaying game.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Dyir, post: 5589842, member: 13293"] I will admit to being the youngling of this discussion: my first exposure to D&D was at the end of 2E. At the time, from what I can remember, the gods were almost always presented as "so powerful that you have no hope of even harming them in any way, so stats are meaningless." And then once 3E actually gave them stats, they were ridiculous 20HD + 60 class levels + insane abilities (one of which was wish at will!). So, encountering 4E's "you can actually kill them now" is still somewhat novel to me. I admit that I mentally add abilities that have no direct importance to the plot to the statblocks of my NPCs, since in 4E stats are largely only for the parts of the NPC that the players interact with, so my perspective might be skewed. I would also agree that it works as a decent guideline, especially since D&D does not have a method or player character to continue to gain abilities but remain at the same "scope" of Tier: the magic and monsters seem to kind of assume an escalation of the level of threat and control over their destinies. And I tend to imagine Tiers more in how much influence the characters have over their universe, but describing it in terms of "threat" feels easier in the context of a roleplaying game. [/QUOTE]

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