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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Hriston" data-source="post: 6899813" data-attributes="member: 6787503">I disagree with this, although it does appear to be a popular approach. To me, a straight reading of the rules indicates that you don't need to recognize the creature as a threat. You only need to notice the creature and you will not be surprised by it.This sounds like a case that needs to be resolved with an initiative roll! The rules don't say you need to detect a threat, as in determining for yourself whether someone actually poses a threat. No, they say you need to notice a threat, and if this guy has a concealed dagger and may end up stabbing you, then he is most certainly a threat. If he isn't trying to be stealthy then you automatically notice him.The rules tell the DM how to determine surprise. Someone has to try to be stealthy. If they do, their Stealth check is contested by the Perception check of anyone focused on detecting hidden threats. That's it.</blockquote>