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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 6293637" data-attributes="member: 1465">I also liked that War Machine mechanics very much, but honestly I don't think we really need them in core. Only a very few DMs ever run battles at the armies level, and with those rules your PCs are not exactly part of the battle but rather are those responsible for setting up armies and making large-scale tactical decisions, not exactly a regular feature of a D&D games.Instead, they sometimes mentioned another set of rules, aimed at the somewhat intermediate case of the PCs fighting a large number of monsters, e.g. 20 orcs or 50 goblins, while still playing typical D&D adventures. I think this is much more useful that true mass battle rules, I'd rather have solid rules that allow me to handle those orcs or goblins in groups of 5 or 10, so that I don't have to roll 50 dice each turn, and still end up with results which are reasonably affected by how many monsters are there. The rules might be based indeed on swarms of previous editions.Ideally, I'd like to have both in the core, but the second IMHO is much more frequently useful.</blockquote>