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Message: <blockquote data-quote="skinnydwarf" data-source="post: 6451619" data-attributes="member: 7024">I think some of you are looking at this the wrong way. As players and DMs, we know the lore of the default D&D setting: that the gods are real, that they grant spells, that they live on the planes, that worshipers give them power, etc.But that's the wrong perspective.  You should approach the question "how could a character be an atheist in a default D&D setting" from the perspective of the characters in the world.  *We the players* know what we know of the world because that's the assumption of the setting.  The books and the DM told us so.  The only way the characters would know these things, however, is through experience, observing things, and coming up with explanations to explain those observations.  Or, for things they have not experienced or are confused about, by learning from elders, or in school or a temple.  In other words, they learn about their world the same way we learn about ours.Those living in the D&D world witness both the cleric and the wizard do magic, but only one of those is considered divine.  The atheist character asks, "Why should I believe that there is there a distinction between arcane magic and divine magic?"  This character does not find the so-called evidence for the existance of the gods to be convincing, because he can find other rational explanations for that evidence that does not involve the existance of divine beings."This guy was healed by a cleric!" Yeah, magic is a thing."This guy was raised from the dead!"  Yeah, the wizard can do that too, we just call those flesh golems."Fire rained from the sky!" Yeah, you just need a fifth level wizard for that. Or a dragon with greater invisibility.*"The god came down and was super powerful!" Yeah, you know who else is super powerful? Dragons, the tarrasque, etc. But they aren't gods.I think the issue is that, in a world where the supernatural and magic are relatively commonplace (but are not always divine), it is easy to rationalize any "evidence" of divinity as simply another example of the supernatural that you already understand.The atheist character sees some divine magic, and explains it with reference to what he already knows about magic- that is a non-divine force undrstandable by mortals.  Divine magic looks just like arcane magic, so it must have the same source and follow the same rules.Different characters have different epistemological views.  The same evidence is seen as divine intervention by the cleric and other faithful, and as yet another manifestation of magic by the atheist D&D character.On the flip side, maybe there could be a religious character who does not believe in arcane magic- surely that is the work of the gods! It looks just like divine magic, so it must be divine! Wizard, you are merely deluding yourself by thinking you can understand and manipulate the gods' creation!* This would give rise to (absurd to us) arguments such as: "You believe in the gods because you saw fire from the sky? Tell me, what's more likely, that there are a dozens of supremely powerful beings with nothing better to do than give mortals powers and otherwise interfere with their lives so that they are worshipped, or that there was a passing invisible dragon that breathed fire?  Believe in the gods? No thanks.  I've seen dragons and invisible creatures (I've got a ring for that), I'll believe my eyes!"</blockquote>

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