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<blockquote data-quote="WizarDru" data-source="post: 3008868" data-attributes="member: 151">Well, the title asks a different question because it includes vampires, one of the most classic 'turned' undead in tales and fiction, as is mentioned up-thread.&nbsp; The origin of the term 'un-dead' comes from Bram Stoker's Dracula, after all.&nbsp; Many of the creatures in the category of undead all tie to similar such themes.&nbsp; Ghosts, revenants and many similar undead remain due to unfinished business and sheer willpower....and the cleric's archetypical concept is that of the holy warrior who turns them back.&nbsp; In most cases, the person who townsfolk turn to deal with the undead, even if only for advice, is the local bishop or wiseman.&nbsp; How do you get rid of a hopping vampire?&nbsp; The same way you do a ghoul or a revenant.&nbsp; Beat them up until you can re-inter them, often with a piece of paper with a talisman or letter of absolution to make suer they don't return.The turning mechanic is a really nice mechanic that gives the cleric something to do other than heal.&nbsp; Most of the time, when I hear how powerful the cleric is, it sounds like the cleric in question is strong on paper, but only if he's not a team player.&nbsp; Unless the party is dependent on potions, UMD'ed wands and the like, they're going to need the cleric in the thick of battle to heal and remove negative effects.&nbsp; The downside of being the party medic is that you don't get to do much directly against the enemy.&nbsp; Turning, clumsy as it is mechanically, allows the cleric to get a nice, limited team ability.&nbsp; Would the game break down if the cleric lost the turning ability?&nbsp; Not at all.&nbsp; But it really only takes away a good, flavorful ability that benefits the team, not the cleric.A better argument might be, what good is turning at high levels, where the undead rapidly outsrip a level-appropriate's cleric ability to affec tethem.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="WizarDru, post: 3008868, member: 151"] Well, the title asks a different question because it includes vampires, one of the most classic 'turned' undead in tales and fiction, as is mentioned up-thread. The origin of the term 'un-dead' comes from Bram Stoker's Dracula, after all. Many of the creatures in the category of undead all tie to similar such themes. Ghosts, revenants and many similar undead remain due to unfinished business and sheer willpower....and the cleric's archetypical concept is that of the holy warrior who turns them back. In most cases, the person who townsfolk turn to deal with the undead, even if only for advice, is the local bishop or wiseman. How do you get rid of a hopping vampire? The same way you do a ghoul or a revenant. Beat them up until you can re-inter them, often with a piece of paper with a talisman or letter of absolution to make suer they don't return. The turning mechanic is a really nice mechanic that gives the cleric something to do other than heal. Most of the time, when I hear how powerful the cleric is, it sounds like the cleric in question is strong on paper, but only if he's not a team player. Unless the party is dependent on potions, UMD'ed wands and the like, they're going to need the cleric in the thick of battle to heal and remove negative effects. The downside of being the party medic is that you don't get to do much directly against the enemy. Turning, clumsy as it is mechanically, allows the cleric to get a nice, limited team ability. Would the game break down if the cleric lost the turning ability? Not at all. But it really only takes away a good, flavorful ability that benefits the team, not the cleric. A better argument might be, what good is turning at high levels, where the undead rapidly outsrip a level-appropriate's cleric ability to affec tethem. [/QUOTE]

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