Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Enchanted Trinkets Complete--a hardcover book containing over 500 magic items for your D&D games!

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8267499" data-attributes="member: 93670">]Sure, except that expending those resources is generally met with overcompensations combating problems of past editions.  You  & a few others are quick to dismiss the damage disparity as something fighters should excel at but it applies to rogues as well they just make a more difficult to compare set of numbers due to scaling & other issues.  I'm  more than happy to admit that damage is not the wizard's crown & never said it should be.  What I'm sating is that the damage disparity does not justify the lack of greatness elsewhere that you & others keep asserting must exist somewhere you can't be bothered to go into.  Detail where you think that greatness is that justifies things like the overuse of concentration generally weakened spells monster design targeting LFQW of past editions where it was a problem & damage disparity in combat.  Sure it might exist, show where.You allude to utility spells able to do things no skill check no matter how high can accomplish yet noted not a single spell.  Can you be specific?  Does this require contrived situations & situations that only require those spells because the gm by fiat said no other abilities are an option?  In my experience those situations are too niche & coincidental to matter if they come up in a campaign at all.  You didn't list any so we can't discuss that thoughbuffing debuffing & control are all hindered by overuse of concentration overuse of magic resist & overuse of legendary resist on top of the undertuned spells themselves that fail to make up the diasparity even if you ignore the overcompensation.  Since you &  [USER=16266]@ph0rk[/USER]  seem to think that's the real gold exploration & utility if you want to include those go for it.  Whatever you do be more specific than vague allusions that shove the work of proving your position onto others before discussion can even begin.I'm saying the disparity is too great and because WotC is all in on combating the problems of past editions it's difficult to address without massive sweeping changes.  You & a few others keep saying that there is no need to address anything because somewhere is a niche where all the true greatness lies, unfortunately I can't agree or disagree because thus far it's pretty much been described as "find familiar" as the beginning and end of that niche & that spell in no way provides the oomph being demanded of it to support the disparity as justifiedFine, post a build & associated spell listyou feel shows their strength.  From the sounds of things that should result in self evident greatness.Think of it like this.  I can look at different cars & compare things like gas mileage pickup cargo capacity safety ratings MSRP & many others.  classes should be an even easier comparisonto gauge where they are on the three pillars.  martial classes are dramatically ahead of casters like wizard & the claim is that is because wizard is so far ahead elsewhere but there's nothing being added to support that claim. What is important is if those utility spells and rituals are providing a significant enough effect to justify the state of things or not  & . A few of us are saying they do not  given the niche uses of those spells being too niche given limitations like spells available while you & a few others are saying it does but not actually willing to demonstrate with a build or spell list not hiding behind the quantum ogreYou sound pretty certain there, why the reluctance to  show a build or even example spellbook/spells prepped list that supports it?</blockquote>

Verification