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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 4107144" data-attributes="member: 4937">I think this is the heart of the misunderstanding.The way I see it, if 4e is glitched, "so was 3E" is not a particular argument for adopting 4e.  In any event, no one is claiming that one is a "dumb butt" for adopting 4e.  There are perfectly valid reasons for adopting 4e.  What I would really like to be talking about is a thoughtful discussion of game mechanics for achieving certain within game goals.  If we can agree to stop making claims like 'One can't be a hero if one is a cripple' and 'The game isn't fun unless I can play the sexy [insert secondary description here] god of death', then I'll stop with the 'If you think one can't be a hero and a cripple, then you don't know what a hero is' and 'Grow up, loser'.  I'm sure people are tired of me, but I'm sick and tired of being told that the game can't be played in a way that I've played it and simultaneously how great it is that you won't be able to play it the way I've always played it anymore.That out of the way maybe we can actually discuss why you might want long term injury, what such mechanics incentivize, and how we might design them to incentivize the sort of behavior that we want to see in the sort of games each of us want to run or participate in.  At least for me, that's going to be far more interesting than having another thread were we repeatedly insult each other backhandedly and openly over our various game preferences.</blockquote>

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