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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Longsword finesse when used 2H
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<blockquote data-quote="Cap'n Kobold" data-source="post: 9050586" data-attributes="member: 6802951"><p>There is nothing special about the construction of the katana that grants it Finesse. Even compared to the german messers (knives) with whom they share similarities in design and usage, they are fairly short and blade-heavy.</p><p>If you want your character who can't jump over their lunch box and has the muscle tone of overcooked spaghetti to wield a katana effectively, there are a number of better options. Using scimitar stats, or the ever-reliable Hexblade would be two.</p><p>There might be an argument for the historical Longsword, the point of which was used a lot, as being Finesse although I personally would say no to that. The katana however is one of the least-Finessable (in the D&D sense, not common English sense) weapons that would fall into the Longsword category of 5e.</p><p>Even much anime media, which depicts a lot of katana-wielding heroes, seems to depict them as being of exceedingly high strength.</p><p></p><p>[QUOTE</p><p>Some polearms are designed to pierce armor.</p><p></p><p>When I was thinking about guns in D&D, the bullet pierces the metal armor. To represent how a gun ignores armor, the best mechanic is probably a Dexterity saving throw versus 1d8 Pierce. Thus heavy armor and low Dexterity is less helpful against a gun. For a single bullet, the saving throw is all or nothing. Maybe for a shotgun spray, there might be half damage. Perhaps specially reinforced "proofed" armors grant an advantage to the saving throw.</p><p></p><p>Maybe the armor-bypassing polearms can have a similar mechanic. If thrusting the part of the polearm that is a spear (or similar spike or sword blade at the end of the pole), then it does normal spear damage, 1d8 Pierce. But if swinging the part of the polearm that obviates armor, it does DC 10 Dexterity save, versus 1d8 Pierce or versus 1d8 Bludgeon, depending on the type of polearm. The polearm wielder chooses which part of the polearm to use for each attack.</p><p></p><p></p><p>I havent thought much about the axe. Notably, many axes are normal axes, the kind that chop wood. So, at least they are a handy tool, such as to chop thru a door.</p></blockquote><p>Some polearms and other weapons were designed to pierce armour, but that doesn't mean that they can ignore a breastplate any more than musket balls can. They were better at getting through armour than swords were, for example, but "better" doesn't mean "automatic success". 5e's combat is not granular enough to take into account those respective advantages, but the new Graze weapon mastery property might be the best way to represent that. Or just giving a bonus to hit or damage against a high-AC target.</p><p>I could definitely see an experienced warrior making an attack where their opponent had to make a save or take damage, but I think that that would be an ability of the warrior, not the weapon.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>A "Claymore" is <strong>literally </strong>a "greatsword". Its a two-handed sword. Not even like the historical longsword, which was only <em>almost </em>exclusively two-handed. Unless you're talking about the basket-hilted claymores from later on, but they are are almost exclusively one-handed.</p><p></p><p> All of those swords still fall into 5e's "longsword " category and they do not, in fact, have the Finesse property.</p><p>[/QUOTE]</p>
[QUOTE="Cap'n Kobold, post: 9050586, member: 6802951"] There is nothing special about the construction of the katana that grants it Finesse. Even compared to the german messers (knives) with whom they share similarities in design and usage, they are fairly short and blade-heavy. If you want your character who can't jump over their lunch box and has the muscle tone of overcooked spaghetti to wield a katana effectively, there are a number of better options. Using scimitar stats, or the ever-reliable Hexblade would be two. There might be an argument for the historical Longsword, the point of which was used a lot, as being Finesse although I personally would say no to that. The katana however is one of the least-Finessable (in the D&D sense, not common English sense) weapons that would fall into the Longsword category of 5e. Even much anime media, which depicts a lot of katana-wielding heroes, seems to depict them as being of exceedingly high strength. [QUOTE Some polearms are designed to pierce armor. When I was thinking about guns in D&D, the bullet pierces the metal armor. To represent how a gun ignores armor, the best mechanic is probably a Dexterity saving throw versus 1d8 Pierce. Thus heavy armor and low Dexterity is less helpful against a gun. For a single bullet, the saving throw is all or nothing. Maybe for a shotgun spray, there might be half damage. Perhaps specially reinforced "proofed" armors grant an advantage to the saving throw. Maybe the armor-bypassing polearms can have a similar mechanic. If thrusting the part of the polearm that is a spear (or similar spike or sword blade at the end of the pole), then it does normal spear damage, 1d8 Pierce. But if swinging the part of the polearm that obviates armor, it does DC 10 Dexterity save, versus 1d8 Pierce or versus 1d8 Bludgeon, depending on the type of polearm. The polearm wielder chooses which part of the polearm to use for each attack. I havent thought much about the axe. Notably, many axes are normal axes, the kind that chop wood. So, at least they are a handy tool, such as to chop thru a door.[/QUOTE] Some polearms and other weapons were designed to pierce armour, but that doesn't mean that they can ignore a breastplate any more than musket balls can. They were better at getting through armour than swords were, for example, but "better" doesn't mean "automatic success". 5e's combat is not granular enough to take into account those respective advantages, but the new Graze weapon mastery property might be the best way to represent that. Or just giving a bonus to hit or damage against a high-AC target. I could definitely see an experienced warrior making an attack where their opponent had to make a save or take damage, but I think that that would be an ability of the warrior, not the weapon. A "Claymore" is [B]literally [/B]a "greatsword". Its a two-handed sword. Not even like the historical longsword, which was only [I]almost [/I]exclusively two-handed. Unless you're talking about the basket-hilted claymores from later on, but they are are almost exclusively one-handed. All of those swords still fall into 5e's "longsword " category and they do not, in fact, have the Finesse property. [/QUOTE]
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