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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6943703" data-attributes="member: 12731">If I understand you correctly, you are trying to argue that Dexterity is superior, but not for ranged builds somehow. This is very strange. It seems we are fully in agreement otherwise, so before I go into detail I'd really only want to ask you to reconsider all the advantages ranged brings. And leave it at that. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />---A few short details then:Carrying enough ammunition is not a drawback worth mentioning. Sorry but I have never ever come across an archer running out of ammo in twenty years of D&D gaming.Hand crossbows is really the only one that really can be maximized properly, so let's skip discussing every other ranged weapon shall we <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":-)" title="Smile    :-)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":-)" />Hand crossbows can be effectively dual wielded (although technically you still use only one). Crossbow expert even grants you the equivalence of the two-weapon fighting style. This means you effectively get two fighting styles (obviously you pick Archery fighting style)!This also allows you to shoot as many times as you have attacks (plus one for your bonus attack). Obviously you can't apply Greatweapon Fighting. What I meant was that you can apply its -5/+10 mechanism. The feat is called Sharpshooter, which you will want anyway to negate the cover and range penalties. Do keep in mind that the Archery fighting style turns the mechanism effectively into a -3/+10 mechanism, or at least -3/+8 if you want to take the d6 damage die into account as well.I completely disgree when you downplay the advantages of range reach. First off, any competent player will pick a 120 ft race if darkvision is going to play a role. Then, while monks and barbarians can get enough Speed, most heavily armored builds will have 30 ft Speed, and that is quite often not enough to fully utilize all your attacks and/or Cleave. Remember, even a single unused attack per combat is probably enough to lose any damage advantage a greatweapon gives you over a d6 weapon. Meaning: if you even lose one attack (let alone a full round's worth of attacks) you would probably be better off with ranged.Phew! Still with me? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />Also keep in mind that the power of tradition, nostalgia and groupthink has a strong hold over people's minds. I really can't expect you to see the light until you start to seriously consider an all-ranged party. This opens up so many completely overwhelming tactics that players simply aren't accustomed to using: focus firing the entire party's damage output on one foe at a time. Tactically withdrawing in the face of charging monsters - even a single extra round of unopposed fire is way better than anything a greatweapon can give you. Etc. Etc.And then comes the clincher: 5E's Monster Manual has seriously dropped the ball when it comes to ensuring its monsters can cope with kiting strategies. Previous editions allowed at least high-CR foes to keep a few tricks up their sleeves. Much less so in 5E. Many many MANY monsters can be trivially shut down (either completely or at least their big damage attacks) by simply keeping your distance. As if the advantages of 5E ranged weren't great already...I really urge you to think about what a party of four level 10 fighters with hand crossbows can do <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />I guarantee you most players simply haven't ever considered doing these things. And why not? Because this edition represents a seismic shift! These things weren't nearly as worthwhile in 3E!Previously ranged fire was squarely a sideshow in the melee arena that is fantasy combat. For many people it still is, but only because they haven't truly thought about 5Es changes...</blockquote>

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