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<blockquote data-quote="Arial Black" data-source="post: 6944774" data-attributes="member: 6799649"><p>My first 5E PC was a single class vuman fighter, Str 8 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 13 Cha 16. I'm quite happy to do without max Con for a warrior, but putting points in Str would be a waste while points in Con, Int, Wis and Cha all have their uses. I'd like higher stats in all of those four, but y'know, point-buy.</p><p></p><p>I knew I wanted the best possible attack stat, and since my concept was a dextrous, charismatic swashbuckler I wanted a high Cha, and valued that more than high Con. He wasn't min/maxed because Cha doesn't make him a better melee combatant; I just wanted a PC who could do stuff outside of combat as well as in combat. I was very pleased that I could still have a high Cha without gimping my warrior. I could've focused on Int instead, but point-buy means something has to give. Putting points in Str would have so little benefit; skills? Only Athletics, and I had Acrobatics. Saving Throws? Str is an uncommon save, and I'm proficient anyway. Compare that to the skills available for the mental stats. You'll note the odd Wis score; my plan was to take Resilient-Wis later on.</p><p></p><p>Point-buy affects how you make your PC. If you have rolled six scores, you can arrange them how you like, and I would've arranged those rolls in order, Dex first, Cha second, then Con/Wis (saving an odd score for Wis if possible) and then Int and lastly Str. However, if I had rolled, say, 11 as my lowest score and assigned it to Str, then that is that! I couldn't make myself weaker in order to be more charismatic than my roll of (say) 15. <em>But point-buy lets you do that!</em> And the scarcity of points combined with no need for <em>two</em> attack stats leads to an evolutionary pressure in point-buy to have 16/8 or 8/16 in Str/Dex (for a non-barbarian warrior), and any other use of your points is foolish. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'd either start with a level of fighter for heavy armour proficiency, Con saves to aid my concentration checks, and a second fighting style....or I would choose shortswords so I wouldn't have to waste points.</p><p></p><p>If I attack with Str but can't wear heavy armour, then I start with Str 16 and Dex 14, leaving me with both stat bonuses used and 13 points left; the best starting medium armour gives me AC 13 + 2 from Dex = 15.</p><p></p><p>If I used shortswords then my Str is 8 and my Dex is 16, leaving me with one vuman bonus point and 18 build points. My starting AC is 12 (studded leather) + 3 Dex = 15. Same AC, same +3 to attack/damage, less weight, more starting money left, more points left for better Con and mental stats. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>AC = 16 (splint); one more than studded leather plus Dex at the cost of 5 build points wasted on Str instead of spent wisely on the other stats, more money, more weight, disadvantage on Stealth. Or I might have Str 8 and take the encumberance penalties.</p><p></p><p>The point of heavy armour isn't just for the pleasure of saying you wear heavy armour! The point of armour is to have a better AC wearing it than you would have <em>not</em> wearing it, without gimping you too much in other ways.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>My second PC was a Pal 2/War 3 (fiendish chainlock) in <em>mithral</em> full plate and, <em>despite his Dex of 8</em>, proficient in Stealth. Problem with heavy armour: poor stealth. Solution: mithral armour removes disadvantage, Stealth proficiency results in Stealth +2 at 5th level. Not the best, but certainly good enough for a guy in full plate! </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I enjoy making PCs that <em>seem</em> as though they have gimped themselves but who have solved their own problems. The Pal/War mentioned above, my Bar/War who cannot cast (or concentrate on) spells while raging, but who uses her two slots to cast <em>armour of agathys</em> and one pre arse-kicking <em>fireball</em> before going postal, knowing AofA will last twice as long because she takes half damage while raging.</p><p></p><p>In the end, I think we both agree that <strong>the</strong> most important thing is that we think our own PC is cool! We just have to make it work; play to our strengths and minimise our weaknesses. It's just that I cannot justify spending build points on <em>both</em> attack stats when making a non-barbarian warrior. It gimps me for no benefit in return.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Arial Black, post: 6944774, member: 6799649"] My first 5E PC was a single class vuman fighter, Str 8 Dex 16 Con 12 Int 8 Wis 13 Cha 16. I'm quite happy to do without max Con for a warrior, but putting points in Str would be a waste while points in Con, Int, Wis and Cha all have their uses. I'd like higher stats in all of those four, but y'know, point-buy. I knew I wanted the best possible attack stat, and since my concept was a dextrous, charismatic swashbuckler I wanted a high Cha, and valued that more than high Con. He wasn't min/maxed because Cha doesn't make him a better melee combatant; I just wanted a PC who could do stuff outside of combat as well as in combat. I was very pleased that I could still have a high Cha without gimping my warrior. I could've focused on Int instead, but point-buy means something has to give. Putting points in Str would have so little benefit; skills? Only Athletics, and I had Acrobatics. Saving Throws? Str is an uncommon save, and I'm proficient anyway. Compare that to the skills available for the mental stats. You'll note the odd Wis score; my plan was to take Resilient-Wis later on. Point-buy affects how you make your PC. If you have rolled six scores, you can arrange them how you like, and I would've arranged those rolls in order, Dex first, Cha second, then Con/Wis (saving an odd score for Wis if possible) and then Int and lastly Str. However, if I had rolled, say, 11 as my lowest score and assigned it to Str, then that is that! I couldn't make myself weaker in order to be more charismatic than my roll of (say) 15. [I]But point-buy lets you do that![/I] And the scarcity of points combined with no need for [I]two[/I] attack stats leads to an evolutionary pressure in point-buy to have 16/8 or 8/16 in Str/Dex (for a non-barbarian warrior), and any other use of your points is foolish. I'd either start with a level of fighter for heavy armour proficiency, Con saves to aid my concentration checks, and a second fighting style....or I would choose shortswords so I wouldn't have to waste points. If I attack with Str but can't wear heavy armour, then I start with Str 16 and Dex 14, leaving me with both stat bonuses used and 13 points left; the best starting medium armour gives me AC 13 + 2 from Dex = 15. If I used shortswords then my Str is 8 and my Dex is 16, leaving me with one vuman bonus point and 18 build points. My starting AC is 12 (studded leather) + 3 Dex = 15. Same AC, same +3 to attack/damage, less weight, more starting money left, more points left for better Con and mental stats. AC = 16 (splint); one more than studded leather plus Dex at the cost of 5 build points wasted on Str instead of spent wisely on the other stats, more money, more weight, disadvantage on Stealth. Or I might have Str 8 and take the encumberance penalties. The point of heavy armour isn't just for the pleasure of saying you wear heavy armour! The point of armour is to have a better AC wearing it than you would have [I]not[/I] wearing it, without gimping you too much in other ways. My second PC was a Pal 2/War 3 (fiendish chainlock) in [I]mithral[/I] full plate and, [I]despite his Dex of 8[/I], proficient in Stealth. Problem with heavy armour: poor stealth. Solution: mithral armour removes disadvantage, Stealth proficiency results in Stealth +2 at 5th level. Not the best, but certainly good enough for a guy in full plate! I enjoy making PCs that [I]seem[/I] as though they have gimped themselves but who have solved their own problems. The Pal/War mentioned above, my Bar/War who cannot cast (or concentrate on) spells while raging, but who uses her two slots to cast [I]armour of agathys[/I] and one pre arse-kicking [I]fireball[/I] before going postal, knowing AofA will last twice as long because she takes half damage while raging. In the end, I think we both agree that [B]the[/B] most important thing is that we think our own PC is cool! We just have to make it work; play to our strengths and minimise our weaknesses. It's just that I cannot justify spending build points on [I]both[/I] attack stats when making a non-barbarian warrior. It gimps me for no benefit in return. [/QUOTE]
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