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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7748205" data-attributes="member: 996">If you're using the Staff as an Implement in your off-hand, and the Sword as a primary-hand weapon, that worked fine in 4e, and 5e went ahead and made the staff a one-handed weapon...&nbsp; &nbsp;Having the same number/power-level of resources doesn't make classes play the same.&nbsp; Just look at the Cleric &amp; Wizard (or, heck, magic-user back in the day), same spell progressions, but they play differently - different spell lists (not even 100% different, as they were in 4e), different class features.&nbsp;I think that sums it up.&nbsp; If they're 'playing the same,' how is one fun and the other bland?&nbsp; What you're describing isn't playing the same, it's class balance, and, yes, it was a lot more fun to play a balanced fighter in 4e than a marginalized one in any other edition, and a lot less 'fun' (if your 0-sum definition of fun requires dominating play) to play a balanced wizard than an OP one.&nbsp;As a baseline for other classes to be better than.&nbsp; It's like Syndrome in the Incredibles:&nbsp; if everyone is 'fun' or 'exciting,' then no one is.&nbsp; (If that sounds reasonable, remind yourself that you're nodding and agreeing with a sociopathic villain.)&nbsp; I think part of the disconnect is the distinction between 'feeling magical' in the sense of representing something supernatural - you shoot fire from your outstretched hand! magic! - and something being exceptionally powerful - you automatically kill every orc in a 20' radius! (but only once/slot) magic!&nbsp; You're happy with the first definition of magic - a 4e scorching burst (attack REF for 1d6+INTmod) is as magical as a 1e Fireball (6d6, save for half damage &amp; die anyway, orcs); Reign of Steel (auto damage to all adjacent enemies every round) + Come &amp; Get It (attack WILL to pull enemies adjacent) is just as non-magical as a 1e battleax (attack AC for 1d8+STRmod).&nbsp; For others, magic isn't magic unless it's strictly, overwhelmingly, superior (and nominally rare/limited in some routinely manageable way) - to them, Come &amp; Get It (goading enemies to charge you) is magical and Scorching Burst (conjuring fire from nothing) is not.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7748205, member: 996"] If you're using the Staff as an Implement in your off-hand, and the Sword as a primary-hand weapon, that worked fine in 4e, and 5e went ahead and made the staff a one-handed weapon... Having the same number/power-level of resources doesn't make classes play the same. Just look at the Cleric & Wizard (or, heck, magic-user back in the day), same spell progressions, but they play differently - different spell lists (not even 100% different, as they were in 4e), different class features. I think that sums it up. If they're 'playing the same,' how is one fun and the other bland? What you're describing isn't playing the same, it's class balance, and, yes, it was a lot more fun to play a balanced fighter in 4e than a marginalized one in any other edition, and a lot less 'fun' (if your 0-sum definition of fun requires dominating play) to play a balanced wizard than an OP one. As a baseline for other classes to be better than. It's like Syndrome in the Incredibles: if everyone is 'fun' or 'exciting,' then no one is. (If that sounds reasonable, remind yourself that you're nodding and agreeing with a sociopathic villain.) I think part of the disconnect is the distinction between 'feeling magical' in the sense of representing something supernatural - you shoot fire from your outstretched hand! magic! - and something being exceptionally powerful - you automatically kill every orc in a 20' radius! (but only once/slot) magic! You're happy with the first definition of magic - a 4e scorching burst (attack REF for 1d6+INTmod) is as magical as a 1e Fireball (6d6, save for half damage & die anyway, orcs); Reign of Steel (auto damage to all adjacent enemies every round) + Come & Get It (attack WILL to pull enemies adjacent) is just as non-magical as a 1e battleax (attack AC for 1d8+STRmod). For others, magic isn't magic unless it's strictly, overwhelmingly, superior (and nominally rare/limited in some routinely manageable way) - to them, Come & Get It (goading enemies to charge you) is magical and Scorching Burst (conjuring fire from nothing) is not. [/QUOTE]

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