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<blockquote data-quote="Simon T. Vesper" data-source="post: 7411568" data-attributes="member: 6949304"><p>Yeah, no, I see where you're drawing the connection. You're saying that the author of this article clarified the subject to be <em>all</em> participants.</p><p></p><p>I think it's a fair observation to say what I said, but I agree that it's not fair to call it the same thing.</p><p></p><p>So to clarify, "No Myth" is a methodology characterized by placing the responsibility for adjudication (or 'declaring things to be true') into the hands of all participants, player and GM alike (and in some games, eliminating the GM entirely).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Fair. However, I'm not the one who provided that link...</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>... so I don't really see an issue with using it as a sole resource. (I'm still not quite sure if pemerton was offering these articles as an example of advanced RPGs or just as an alternative style.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So you've gone from claiming I'm a liar to claiming I'm just plain ignorant?</p><p></p><p>There's a difference between, "I don't understand what you're saying," and, "I don't understand the concept." It's clear that I'm struggling with the articles pemerton linked. I suspect that's because they're rather poorly written, but I'm willing to accept that I need to put forth more effort. But I'm fairly confident I understand the concept, given the variety of games I've played (and created, though not published).</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I don't know how much more I can assist with clarifying the concept, but the definition I offered is not "creating or adding to processes independent of a goal." It is (for the third time): ahead or far or further along in progress, complexity, knowledge, skill. I also offered definitions for those four terms; and I acknowledged that the term "progress" is tricky because it requires a clear destination (or goal, or purpose). I haven't pushed for an answer to that question because I know that it will automatically exclude a significant number of games, systems and literature; and so I've offered it to the audience to define, so that <em>someone</em> can provide another example of an advanced RPG.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Simon T. Vesper, post: 7411568, member: 6949304"] Yeah, no, I see where you're drawing the connection. You're saying that the author of this article clarified the subject to be [I]all[/I] participants. I think it's a fair observation to say what I said, but I agree that it's not fair to call it the same thing. So to clarify, "No Myth" is a methodology characterized by placing the responsibility for adjudication (or 'declaring things to be true') into the hands of all participants, player and GM alike (and in some games, eliminating the GM entirely). Fair. However, I'm not the one who provided that link... ... so I don't really see an issue with using it as a sole resource. (I'm still not quite sure if pemerton was offering these articles as an example of advanced RPGs or just as an alternative style.) So you've gone from claiming I'm a liar to claiming I'm just plain ignorant? There's a difference between, "I don't understand what you're saying," and, "I don't understand the concept." It's clear that I'm struggling with the articles pemerton linked. I suspect that's because they're rather poorly written, but I'm willing to accept that I need to put forth more effort. But I'm fairly confident I understand the concept, given the variety of games I've played (and created, though not published). I don't know how much more I can assist with clarifying the concept, but the definition I offered is not "creating or adding to processes independent of a goal." It is (for the third time): ahead or far or further along in progress, complexity, knowledge, skill. I also offered definitions for those four terms; and I acknowledged that the term "progress" is tricky because it requires a clear destination (or goal, or purpose). I haven't pushed for an answer to that question because I know that it will automatically exclude a significant number of games, systems and literature; and so I've offered it to the audience to define, so that [I]someone[/I] can provide another example of an advanced RPG. [/QUOTE]
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