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<blockquote data-quote="The Crimson Binome" data-source="post: 7411849" data-attributes="member: 6775031"><p>Okay, now I think that I understand. Generic advancement was not something I could grasp, because it's hard to know whether any given game offers <em>pro</em>gression or <em>re</em>gression until I knew what the start point and the end point were supposed to be. But you're leaving the goal up for grabs, for anyone who wants to make the argument. Great.</p><p></p><p>So, my joke answer is that the most advanced game is Palladium Rifts, which is still (technically) in its first edition. This is because Kevin Siembieda knows what his end goal for Rifts is, and it's already there. It doesn't need any mechanical improvements, because it is already the game that he wants it to be. There is no room for further advancement.</p><p></p><p>For my actual answer, I'm going to define my own goal. From my perspective, the ultimate goal of a role-playing game system is to let a player effectively pretend to be their character, <em>without</em> any rules that pull them out of character, <em>or</em> rules that make their character seem like an artificial construct rather than a real person who lives in that world. The hard part is that the rules need to define how the world works (or at least the part of the world that the characters are likely to interact with), in such a way that the <em>player</em> can understand how that world actually works, to the <em>same</em> degree that their character does (so that you can make the same decisions that your character would make). The even <em>harder</em> part is that the rules need to be playable at the table, without the entire world slowing down to a crawl whenever something exciting happens.</p><p></p><p>That last point is what prevents something like GURPS (or Phoenix Command) from being the most advanced. It's advanced along one parameter (telling us how the world works), but it's repressed along the other parameter (because it takes so long to resolve anything). And the thing is, those two parameters are more-or-less diametrically opposed, so whichever game <em>I</em> think is the most advanced (over-all) is going to be the one which strikes the best balance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Crimson Binome, post: 7411849, member: 6775031"] Okay, now I think that I understand. Generic advancement was not something I could grasp, because it's hard to know whether any given game offers [I]pro[/I]gression or [I]re[/I]gression until I knew what the start point and the end point were supposed to be. But you're leaving the goal up for grabs, for anyone who wants to make the argument. Great. So, my joke answer is that the most advanced game is Palladium Rifts, which is still (technically) in its first edition. This is because Kevin Siembieda knows what his end goal for Rifts is, and it's already there. It doesn't need any mechanical improvements, because it is already the game that he wants it to be. There is no room for further advancement. For my actual answer, I'm going to define my own goal. From my perspective, the ultimate goal of a role-playing game system is to let a player effectively pretend to be their character, [I]without[/I] any rules that pull them out of character, [I]or[/I] rules that make their character seem like an artificial construct rather than a real person who lives in that world. The hard part is that the rules need to define how the world works (or at least the part of the world that the characters are likely to interact with), in such a way that the [I]player[/I] can understand how that world actually works, to the [I]same[/I] degree that their character does (so that you can make the same decisions that your character would make). The even [I]harder[/I] part is that the rules need to be playable at the table, without the entire world slowing down to a crawl whenever something exciting happens. That last point is what prevents something like GURPS (or Phoenix Command) from being the most advanced. It's advanced along one parameter (telling us how the world works), but it's repressed along the other parameter (because it takes so long to resolve anything). And the thing is, those two parameters are more-or-less diametrically opposed, so whichever game [I]I[/I] think is the most advanced (over-all) is going to be the one which strikes the best balance. [/QUOTE]
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