Looking for feedback on a rough variant casting system.

[Jason Kain]

I'm looking to place a bit of a split between arcane and divine magic in a setting I'm working on. The idea came from separating magic based on the source. Divine would be given(through dieties, nature, etc), while arcane would be taken from the world around the casters. Remembering some childrens books I used to read, I've been toying with the idea that arcane magic is basically unlimited, however, using it drains the caster both mentally and physically. I started fleshing out the mechanic, but it would use some serious work. Here's what I have so far:

To cast an arcane spell, the caster must make an Arcana check against the DC of the spell. The Arcana check consists of 1d20 + primary spellcasting stat modifier + 1/2 caster level + Misc. modifiers. The DC for each spell is 10 + the spell's level + Overcharge + Misc. modifiers. A natural 20 on the Arcana check is an automatic success, while a natural 1 is an automatic failure.

Overcharge: For every spell past the class's usual maximum successfully cast, an overcharge modifer is added to the DC of all arcana checks until the caster gets a full night's rest. The modifier is equal to the effective spell level of the spell cast.

For every failed casting attempt, the caster takes an amount of nonlethal damage equal to the effective level of the spell cast.

This would be accompanied by a reduction on the number of spells normally cast per day by arcane classes. My gut is telling me reducing every spell level by one. The final goal of this is to attempt to even out spellcasting over the levels, as I've seen many first or second level casters too scared to cast their spells in smaller battles, and it would give higher level casters potential for failure.

The first issue that jumps out at me is making sure the comparative numbers are balanced across the levels. I wanted to try and garuntee that they would be able to cast their normal amount of spells per day without difficulty, but exceeding it would make things more difficult the harder they pushed themselves. For example, a first level wizard with an Int of 16 would have a bonus of +4 on the Arcana roll, with the DC of an average 1st level spell set at 11. A 7 would need to be rolled. An 8th level wizard with an 18 Int would get a +8 modifier, with the average 4th level spell DC set at 14. A 6 would need to be rolled. A 20th level wizard with an Int of 21 would get a +15 to the roll, and the DC of the average 9th level spell set at 19. Just a 4 to succeed. However, going over the base spells per day would increase difficulty by a large amount comparative to level, making every spell more difficult to cast.

The other problem is that I built this with the wizard and sorcerer in mind, and I haven't figured out how to work with the bard or other classes that don't cast from first to ninth level spells. It could be changing the bonus based on caster level from 1/2 caster level to 1/3 caster level.

Any feedback would be appreciated...especially if I'm working on a lost cause. Thanks for your time.

 

[Herzog]

Ok, I'll start with the skillcheck.

If you simply make the Arcana check a skill, and then make that a class skill for primary casters (Wizard, Sorcerer) and a cross clas skill for other classes, there is immediately an easy distinction.
(haven't done the math on this yet, but I think it works out)


Second, most non-standard casters are variations on the existing classes build for :
1. fighting ability in addition to casting
2. ability to cast without a maximum number of spells per day.

Since it is possible for non-caster classes to take ranks in 'Arcana', you have automatically 'fixed' 1.
Since you are already fixing 2, I wouldn't bother with those classes. Just disallow them in your campaigns.


I would also think about dropping the 'class's ususal maximum succussfully cast'.
Are you referring to the standard 'spells per day' lists? If so, since you are already rewriting your arcane magic system, I would consider starting from scratch on how many spells per day could be cast.

Herzog

Edit: Just noticed, with changing Arcana to skill, you'd need to change the DC's as well.

 

[Melayl]

I like the idea so far, but I'd really need to see it more fleshed out to make a real comment on how effective it will be to use.

Also, you've shown us the rough arcane outline -- now what about divine?

 

[Jason Kain]

Ok, I'll start with the skillcheck.

If you simply make the Arcana check a skill, and then make that a class skill for primary casters (Wizard, Sorcerer) and a cross clas skill for other classes, there is immediately an easy distinction.
(haven't done the math on this yet, but I think it works out)


Second, most non-standard casters are variations on the existing classes build for :
1. fighting ability in addition to casting
2. ability to cast without a maximum number of spells per day.

Since it is possible for non-caster classes to take ranks in 'Arcana', you have automatically 'fixed' 1.
Since you are already fixing 2, I wouldn't bother with those classes. Just disallow them in your campaigns.


I would also think about dropping the 'class's ususal maximum succussfully cast'.
Are you referring to the standard 'spells per day' lists? If so, since you are already rewriting your arcane magic system, I would consider starting from scratch on how many spells per day could be cast.

Herzog

Edit: Just noticed, with changing Arcana to skill, you'd need to change the DC's as well.

I really wanted to keep Arcana away from being a skill, just because then it would become a must have skill for a number of classes in order to use their class abilities. It doesn't seem fair, especially to classes with a small number of skill points, and the fact that arcane magic already has three skills tied to it: Concentration, Knowledge(arcana), and Spellcraft.

The other reason I wanted to stay away from skill checks is the ease that skill checks can have their bonuses inflated. In order to keep the DCs in a range where there's adequate risk, it feels like I'd either have to artificially inflate the DCs or change the base of the DC to the number of spells levels already cast, and that increases bookkeeping.

On the spells per day issue, yes, I was referring to the standard spells per day lists. I'm trying not to think of this as a re-write, my intent is just a modification. I figured that a simple reduction to the standard spells per day would make up for the fact that there's the possibility to cast all day, if you're lucky. In essence, the reduced number on the spells per day table would be almost garunteed cast, and anything exceeding that would become difficult. Actually, when I do the math concerning the reduction, a level 20 wizard with this system would incur an overcharge modifier for every 4th spell of each level he attempted to cast, and anything beyond what a wizard using the PHB system would be able to cast would be at a DC of 55+Spell level...

Also, you've shown us the rough arcane outline -- now what about divine?

I originally intended to make a change to the divine system, but when I looked at it, it seemed like the mechanics already in place fit my intent. Most divine classes have abilities(be it armor, track, etc) aside from spellcasting to fall back on, and most seem decently powered already.