D&D 2E Looking For Simpler Rogue for D&D2e/Chromatic Dungeon Campaign

[The Old Crow]

There are just too many thief skills to cram onto a character sheet. Does anyone have a streamlined design for the thief class?

 

[Voadam]

I am generally a fan of The B/X Rogue by Necrotic Gnome which came up with an alt thief with no percentage thief skills but choice of special thief abilities (sort of like 3e feats, but most giving a d6 based ability) as they level.

I'd prefer if it had more powerful choices as you level but I prefer the choices to AD&D's thief skills.

It is B/X based where thieves could use any weapon but had only d4 HD, but adjusting to an AD&D 2e base of d6 HD thieves should be easy.

 

[Mannahnin]

There are just too many thief skills to cram onto a character sheet. Does anyone have a streamlined design for the thief class?

What about just consolidating them all into a single "Thievery" skill? Just give a paragraph or so of description in your rules of what Thievery encompasses, or, if you're using a published game like 2E or Chromatic Dungeons, explain in your house rule doc that it includes all of the skills listed in the book.

One of my favorite B/X house rules is to do this, dumping all the percentage values, and have everything but Climb Walls work on the Hear Noise chance. Climb Walls is the same but at a +2. I'll often include an elaboration that once you max out Climb Walls or general Thievery (6 out of 6 chance), you keep it at a 1 in x failure chance but increase the die size from 6 to 8. So instead of going from 5/6 to 6/6 to succeed, you go to 7/8. And when you would hit 8/8, increase the die size again, so it becomes 9/10. Etc.

 

[The Old Crow]

Thank you for the suggestions. I suppose just consolidating some of the skills would be the most straight forward fix.

 

[Voadam]

Thank you for the suggestions. I suppose just consolidating some of the skills would be the most straight forward fix.

Move Silent and Hide in Shadows to Stealth is an easy call, they did it for 4e, Pathfinder, and 5e.

Picking locks is conceptually similar to removing small traps so those seem another potential consolidation.

 

[Quickleaf]

Thank you for the suggestions. I suppose just consolidating some of the skills would be the most straight forward fix.

I've seen some OSR folks adapt the AD&D Turn Undead tables as a catch-all for thief skills and/or non-weapon proficiencies. You equate the challenge of the situation to a Hit Die value, and if necessary player rolls d20 to resolve (high is good).

For ex, 5th level rogue tries to pick lock of a high-ranking diplomat's balcony door while hanging from a rope and patrols below search for suspected intruders. You'd estimate the challenge as equal to a Shadow/3-4 HD, refer to the Turn Undead table, and let the player know they need to roll 7 or higher to pick the lock. But if the rogue were 7th level they could pick this lock automatically ("T" result), and if they were 9th level not only would it be auto-success but they could mask any tampering entirely or maybe pick it especially quietly as the situation warrants ("D" result).

 

[The Old Crow]

I've seen some OSR folks adapt the AD&D Turn Undead tables as a catch-all for thief skills and/or non-weapon proficiencies. You equate the challenge of the situation to a Hit Die value, and if necessary player rolls d20 to resolve (high is good).

For ex, 5th level rogue tries to pick lock of a high-ranking diplomat's balcony door while hanging from a rope and patrols below search for suspected intruders. You'd estimate the challenge as equal to a Shadow/3-4 HD, refer to the Turn Undead table, and let the player know they need to roll 7 or higher to pick the lock. But if the rogue were 7th level they could pick this lock automatically ("T" result), and if they were 9th level not only would it be auto-success but they could mask any tampering entirely or maybe pick it especially quietly as the situation warrants ("D" result).

I have never heard of this before. Interesting idea. I think I will try the consolidating skills idea instead, but I really liked hearing about this (new-to-me) method.

Move Silent and Hide in Shadows to Stealth is an easy call, they did it for 4e, Pathfinder, and 5e.

Picking locks is conceptually similar to removing small traps so those seem another potential consolidation.

Stealth and Mechanics(?) will roll two skills into the rest. Pick Pockets could be rolled into stealth, too. Hear Noise could be put into a general Rogue-ish Perception skill for finding hidden stuff (people, traps, doors). That leaves Climb Walls, which I feel should be broadened into Second Story Work to include things like balancing on ledges and scampering across rooftops, and Read Languages-- which I can't think of anything to combine it with.

 

[Mannahnin]

Stealth and Mechanics(?) will roll two skills into the rest.

Seems pretty reasonable.

Pick Pockets could be rolled into stealth, too.

Perhaps Pick Pockets goes into Fine Manipulation, along with Open Locks and Remove/Disarm (small) Traps? Maybe you're right that it fits in better alongside the two Stealthy skills (MS and HiS), but I find that Stealth is so desirable that it probably doesn't need the extra skill grouped in with it.

Hear Noise could be put into a general Rogue-ish Perception skill for finding hidden stuff (people, traps, doors).

"Find Hidden" as a category name, perhaps? ("Spot Hidden" could alternately be an Easter Egg for folks who've played Call of Cthulu and other BRP games).

That leaves Climb Walls, which I feel should be broadened into Second Story Work to include things like balancing on ledges and scampering across rooftops,

Makes sense.

and Read Languages-- which I can't think of anything to combine it with.

Ja. If you're retitling and combining skills, though, you could potentially make Read Languages more explicitly into Decipher or something. A bit of a broader skill for reading languages, codes, magical writing and runes... Which, TBF, Read Languages has often been described as doing too.

 

[cbwjm]

I'd maybe mix things together like:
Climb (climb walls)
Stealth (move silently, hide in shadows)
Thievery (pick pockets, open locks, remove traps)
Perception (hear noise, find traps)
Read Languages (read languages)

This consolidates them down a bit.

I'd likely also base them off ability checks rather than percentile rolls as well as let other classes attempt them but with penalties since it isn't their forte. If you want them to increase as the thief gains levels, every time they get a proficiency slot, they get a bonus slot to apply to their thief skills. Do this even if you aren't using proficiencies.

 

[Tales and Chronicles]

I'd do something like:

Thieve's Edges:
Scuttle (climb, crawl, hanging to a ledge)
Obfuscate (move silently, hide in shadows, pickpocket)
Use Device (remove trap, set trap, lock pick, use ropes)
Cunning Senses (hear noise, find stuff, read language, Detect Illusion)