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<blockquote data-quote="General Barron" data-source="post: 2647539" data-attributes="member: 32468">Okay, I haven't checked out Unorthodox Bards yet, but I did look at the Marshall from the MHB. I also looked back at the old 2nd ed bard to get some ideas. Here is what I have come up with; please let me know what you think:Bard Variant: Spell-free bardThis bard is identical to the normal bard class, with the following changes:Skills: The bard gets 8 skill points per level instead of 6.Features: (Items in bold are new abilities)level&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; special1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Bardic music, influence reactions, bardic knowledge, inspire courage +1, dispel fatigue, fascinate2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Inspire quickness3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Lore +1, inspire competence4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; countersong, Effortless song (1/day)5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Rally allies6&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Lore +2, suggestion7&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Effortless song (2/day)8&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Inspire courage +29&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Lore +3, Inspire greatness10&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; Effortless song (3/day)11&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 12&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Lore +4, song of freedom13&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Effortless song (4/day)14&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Inspire courage +315&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Lore +5, inspire heroics16&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Effortless song (5/day)17&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 18&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Lore +6, mass suggestion19&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Effortless song (6/day)20&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Inspire courage +4Influence Reactions&nbsp; &nbsp; A master of performing, bards can use their performances to help influence the mood of those hearing it. After a short performance (1-3 minutes), the bard makes a perform check, based on the target(s) attitude towards him:&nbsp; Attitude&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; DC&nbsp;&nbsp; Hostile&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 20&nbsp;&nbsp; Unfriendly&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 15&nbsp;&nbsp; Indifferent&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp;&nbsp; Friendly&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 5&nbsp;&nbsp; Helpful&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 0&nbsp; &nbsp; If the bard succeeds at a perform check, he will then recieve a +2 circumstance bonus to immediately following bluff or diplomacy checks against those targets.Lore&nbsp; &nbsp; Bards are particularly fascinated in learning about the arcane during their travels. Starting at level 3, bards gain a +1 bonus to Use Magic Device and Knowledge (Arcane) skill checks. This bonus increases by +1 every 3 levels thereafter. Even if the bard does not have these skills, he is allowed to make untrained checks in them. Note that a bard might very well get both a Bardic Knowledge AND a Knowledge (Arcane) check to find out certain information, especially information regarding magic items and history.Bardic Music&nbsp; &nbsp; The following are additional effects that the bard can perform:Dispel fatigue (Su)&nbsp; &nbsp; The soothing melodies of the bard's song can make one forget about the physical hardships they are enduring. Prevents creatures within 90' of the bard from incurring fatigue (from forced marching, lack of sleep, etc), and allows them to ignore the effects of any existing fatigue (although such fatigue will come back after the end of the song). The bard can keep these effects up for one hour per daily song used, though he doesn't have to be performing 100% of that time. Dispel fatigue is a mind-affecting ability.Inspire quickness (Su)&nbsp; &nbsp; Using a quick-tempoed performance, the bard can make his companions move as fast as the beat. Grants +10' to base land speed and +4 to initiative rolls to all creatures within 30'. Lasts for as long as the target can hear the bard sing, and 5 rounds thereafter. Inspire quickness is a mind-affecting ability.Effortless song&nbsp; &nbsp; As a bard increases in skill, he becomes even better at performing his magical bardic music, to the point where he can sing and do other things, such as fighting, at the same time. Once per day at 4th level, (+1/day every 3 levels thereafter), the bard may start and maintain a bardic music using free actions instead of simple ones (Note that the song still counts against the bard's daily bardic music limit). Even if the bard has a different Perform skill other than singing, assume that he has broad enough musical talent to sing instead of play an instrument. The bard still can not cast spells or use scrolls while maintaining the song, however.Rally Allies&nbsp; &nbsp; To use this ability, the bard must know the nature of an upcoming combat. The bard sings heroic songs or weaves inspiring tales about how his comrades will overcome their foes and win the day. Such heroic recitals take at least three minutes, and the audience must be within 30' of the bard to be affected. When complete, the bard makes a Perform skill check, with a DC depending on the perceived difficulty of the upcoming encounter (see table 3-2 in the DMG for definitions of difficulty):&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Difficulty&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; DC&nbsp;&nbsp; Overpowering&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 30&nbsp;&nbsp; Very difficult&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 20&nbsp;&nbsp; Challenging&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 15&nbsp;&nbsp; Easy if &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; handled properly&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 10&nbsp;&nbsp; Easy&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; 5&nbsp; &nbsp; If the skill check succeeds, the bard's Charisma modifier is used as a Morale bonus for one of the following benefits (chosen by the bard before he makes the skill check):True strike: bonus to attacks of opportunity and rolls to confirm critical hits.Art of war: bonus on disarm, trip bull rush, and sunder attempts.Press the advantage: bonus to damage rolls when flanking or charging.Determined caster: bonus on rolls to overcome spell resistance.Heroic defense: bonus to one type of saving throw.Inner strength: bonus to skill and ability checks based on one ability.&nbsp; &nbsp; Note that the benefit applies only to the specific (upcoming) encounter that the bard sings about. Once the encounter begins, the effects last for one round per level of the bard. If the encounter doesn't begin fairly soon after the rally ability is used (within an hour or so), then the benefits are lost. If the skill check fails, the bard can not attempt to rally his allies again for that same encounter.-----------------------The basic idea is that the extra skill points and the Lore ability beef up his skills, especially Use Magic Device (which is supposed to replace his spells, to a certain degree). His songs are beefed up by the Effortless Song ability, which allows him to do other stuff in combat instead of only keeping his song up. Some of the stuff is just in there for 'flavor' more than anything else (influence reactions, dispel fatigue). Rally Allies is a cross between the 2nd ed ability, and the Marshall's Aura ability. Note that while it can be used any number of times per day, there are fairly strict limits on how it can be used. I imagine it might be either too powerful or too weak, so I especially want advice on that. It might also need something else at higher levels, since I didn't add much new stuff up there.Let me know what you think <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="General Barron, post: 2647539, member: 32468"] Okay, I haven't checked out Unorthodox Bards yet, but I did look at the Marshall from the MHB. I also looked back at the old 2nd ed bard to get some ideas. Here is what I have come up with; please let me know what you think: [U][B]Bard Variant: Spell-free bard[/B][/U] This bard is identical to the normal bard class, with the following changes: [B]Skills:[/B] The bard gets 8 skill points per level instead of 6. [B]Features:[/B] [I](Items in bold are new abilities)[/I] [U]level special[/U] 1 Bardic music, [B]influence reactions[/B], bardic knowledge, inspire courage +1, [B]dispel fatigue[/B], fascinate 2 [B]Inspire quickness[/B] 3 [B]Lore +1[/B], inspire competence 4 countersong, [B]Effortless song (1/day)[/B] 5 [B]Rally allies[/B] 6 [B]Lore +2[/B], suggestion 7 [B]Effortless song (2/day)[/B] 8 Inspire courage +2 9 [B]Lore +3[/B], Inspire greatness 10 [B]Effortless song (3/day)[/B] 11 12 [B]Lore +4[/B], song of freedom 13 [B]Effortless song (4/day)[/B] 14 Inspire courage +3 15 [B]Lore +5[/B], inspire heroics 16 [B]Effortless song (5/day)[/B] 17 18 [B]Lore +6[/B], mass suggestion 19 [B]Effortless song (6/day)[/B] 20 Inspire courage +4 [B]Influence Reactions[/B] A master of performing, bards can use their performances to help influence the mood of those hearing it. After a short performance (1-3 minutes), the bard makes a perform check, based on the target(s) attitude towards him: [U]Attitude DC[/U] Hostile 20 Unfriendly 15 Indifferent 10 Friendly 5 Helpful 0 If the bard succeeds at a perform check, he will then recieve a +2 circumstance bonus to immediately following bluff or diplomacy checks against those targets. [B]Lore[/B] Bards are particularly fascinated in learning about the arcane during their travels. Starting at level 3, bards gain a +1 bonus to Use Magic Device and Knowledge (Arcane) skill checks. This bonus increases by +1 every 3 levels thereafter. Even if the bard does not have these skills, he is allowed to make untrained checks in them. Note that a bard might very well get both a Bardic Knowledge AND a Knowledge (Arcane) check to find out certain information, especially information regarding magic items and history. [B]Bardic Music[/B] The following are additional effects that the bard can perform: [I]Dispel fatigue (Su)[/I] The soothing melodies of the bard's song can make one forget about the physical hardships they are enduring. Prevents creatures within 90' of the bard from incurring fatigue (from forced marching, lack of sleep, etc), and allows them to ignore the effects of any existing fatigue (although such fatigue will come back after the end of the song). The bard can keep these effects up for one hour per daily song used, though he doesn't have to be performing 100% of that time. Dispel fatigue is a mind-affecting ability. [I]Inspire quickness (Su)[/I] Using a quick-tempoed performance, the bard can make his companions move as fast as the beat. Grants +10' to base land speed and +4 to initiative rolls to all creatures within 30'. Lasts for as long as the target can hear the bard sing, and 5 rounds thereafter. Inspire quickness is a mind-affecting ability. [B]Effortless song[/B] As a bard increases in skill, he becomes even better at performing his magical bardic music, to the point where he can sing and do other things, such as fighting, at the same time. Once per day at 4th level, (+1/day every 3 levels thereafter), the bard may start and maintain a bardic music using free actions instead of simple ones (Note that the song still counts against the bard's daily bardic music limit). Even if the bard has a different Perform skill other than singing, assume that he has broad enough musical talent to sing instead of play an instrument. The bard still can not cast spells or use scrolls while maintaining the song, however. [B]Rally Allies[/B] To use this ability, the bard must know the nature of an upcoming combat. The bard sings heroic songs or weaves inspiring tales about how his comrades will overcome their foes and win the day. Such heroic recitals take at least three minutes, and the audience must be within 30' of the bard to be affected. When complete, the bard makes a Perform skill check, with a DC depending on the perceived difficulty of the upcoming encounter (see table 3-2 in the DMG for definitions of difficulty): [U]Difficulty DC[/U] Overpowering 30 Very difficult 20 Challenging 15 Easy if handled properly 10 Easy 5 If the skill check succeeds, the bard's Charisma modifier is used as a Morale bonus for one of the following benefits (chosen by the bard before he makes the skill check): [I]True strike: [/I] bonus to attacks of opportunity and rolls to confirm critical hits. [I]Art of war: [/I] bonus on disarm, trip bull rush, and sunder attempts. [I]Press the advantage: [/I] bonus to damage rolls when flanking or charging. [I]Determined caster: [/I] bonus on rolls to overcome spell resistance. [I]Heroic defense: [/I] bonus to one type of saving throw. [I]Inner strength: [/I] bonus to skill and ability checks based on one ability. Note that the benefit applies only to the specific (upcoming) encounter that the bard sings about. Once the encounter begins, the effects last for one round per level of the bard. If the encounter doesn't begin fairly soon after the rally ability is used (within an hour or so), then the benefits are lost. If the skill check fails, the bard can not attempt to rally his allies again for that same encounter. ----------------------- The basic idea is that the extra skill points and the Lore ability beef up his skills, especially Use Magic Device (which is supposed to replace his spells, to a certain degree). His songs are beefed up by the Effortless Song ability, which allows him to do other stuff in combat instead of only keeping his song up. Some of the stuff is just in there for 'flavor' more than anything else (influence reactions, dispel fatigue). Rally Allies is a cross between the 2nd ed ability, and the Marshall's Aura ability. Note that while it can be used any number of times per day, there are fairly strict limits on how it can be used. I imagine it might be either too powerful or too weak, so I especially want advice on that. It might also need something else at higher levels, since I didn't add much new stuff up there. Let me know what you think :). [/QUOTE]

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