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Message: <blockquote data-quote="steeldragons" data-source="post: 6238555" data-attributes="member: 92511">As with most interpersonal conflict, and has already been covered by several responses, the fault lies on both sides.The GM:- "This is what the module says" a.k.a. 'MY hands are tied." and/or another way to say "I don't have to explain myself to you" and/or anther way to say "Just do what I'm saying." This is BAD DMing. If you aren't capable of changing/seeing past what's in the module, you shouldn't be sitting in the proverbial "big chair."- If you are planning ot run a railroad, "just cuz/for fun", then that shoulda been communicated to the players prior to beginning play. It doesn't sound like, in this case, it was,...so again, BAD DMing.- Not knowing the motivations and having a sense of the objectives of your PCs, particularly when they are recurring characters?! This is POOR DMing. As someone's mentioned, this [also] shoulda been handled BEFORE you began play.- Not taking into account the games history and the PC's place in the world, i.e.: These are the guys that saved the world and anyone who's anyone KNOWS this and, if not personally acquainted, knows OF them. Some piddley "prove yourself worthy" test, written in the module or not, should have been skipped/ignored. This is POOR DMing.- Mystery NPCs are some of the best bread and butter a DM gets to play with...but, see above regarding the notoriety of the PCs and their place in the world...the DM is under no compunction to "explain" to a player where/who/how things get done. This isn't the same as the "Just do what I say" above. This is about sitting at a poker table and saying to the other person "Give me your cards." That's a big NUH-UH! You haven't heard of him? Fine. YOu don't know who he is? Fine. This falls in, a bit, to some of the player's fault to be addressed below. The question<s> for the players and PCs are "Why haven't we heard of this guy?! Where'd he come from? Who are his allies? What can we learn about him [in character!]?" Saying "I'm not telling you, the player" That part's all fine and dandy...if the DM had nothing to go on/work from in a game-world context other than "It's what's in the module"...<img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/worried.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":-S" title="Uhm    :-S" data-shortname=":-S" />?!?! Again, poor DMing.</s><s></s><s>For the player:</s><s>- There is a degree of...let's say "bending expectations" that is inherent for D&D to function...at all, let alone well. Back in the day, "YOu all meet at a tavern" was a forgone conclusion. There were not arguments as to WHY we were in a tavern or that "my PCs wouldn't be in a tavern"...you just come up with a reason why you would be...cuz you're hungry or thirsty or looking for a job tended to work just fine. Not quite the same situation here, but the same premise. You are agreeing to go on this adventure...with this PC...it's on the DM and the Player to agree on certain things...but if there weren't anything else to go off of..."Because my friends [the OTHER PCs] are going and [since you said he's kinda arrogant], obviously, they will need my expertise/help." That took me all of about 10 seconds. If the player wasn't capable of doing that...say it with me folks!...That's BAD playing.</s><s>- The player's attitude while doing the tests, if "in character", is completely justifiable. That's GOOD [role] playing...and from my admittedly cursory familiarity with the PC and the situation, sounds to me like it makes complete sense. If it was the player being pissy...then that's poor playing. It sounds to me like this was probably a combo, so we'll call it a wash.</s><s>- Demanding answers from the DM that he is unwilling or, even, incapable of giving you...and not recognizing that sometimes, as the player, you DON'T get all the answers nor are entitled to them...Making a stink because you don't get answers to anything you want...That is poor playing. </s><s></s><s>As for those suggesting in this thread, that if the player couldn't get what they wanted from the DM, the onus was on the player to change their PC to fit the scenario. I must disagree. I mean, yes, it would have been a quick fix. But the point/basis of the problem is that the DM and PC were not on the same page to begin with...that's the DM's fault, not the player's job to "change your character." If the player had KNOWN and could have chosen, then fine. That doesn't sound like it is the case here.</s><s></s><s>All in all...and do understand I am coming from a perspective as a DM and a player with more years/time in the DM's chair than playing in recent decades...I see more of the DM at fault here than the player, though certainly there is blame on both sides.</s></blockquote>

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