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Message: <blockquote data-quote="The-Magic-Sword" data-source="post: 8393819" data-attributes="member: 6801252">I'm still working on my big west marches project and its coming along pretty well (really I've been dragging it out since another campaign needs to end first, and we want Guns and Gears to come out and give us flintlocks) I've actually been thinking a lot about OSR adventure design and how to perform it in pf2e, and it doesn't seem hard at all. Actually [USER=70468]@kenada[/USER] its funny you mention that, because I've been working through some of that stuff mentally reading the threads over in the DND Discussion area in terms of my own game.Essentially its helped me boil things down to a model that relates how our 'modern' (scare quotes to acknowledge baggage) skill systems handle things, to the problems of 'skilled play' as implemented traditionally:1. The Gygaxian Skilled Play models discussed in those threads have the potential pain point of experienced players creating and implementing what is essentially an optimized Standard Operating Procedure where the ability to list off precautions and search strategies effectively 'solves' the environment, as well as bog the game down without having to treat the environment as a puzzle to solve. 2. The Gygaxian Skilled Play models discussed in those threads have the potential pain point of creating a dynamic where new characters by veteran players have the experience level of old-hand characters, which some people find at odds with the fictional elements of the game. In my eyes, a 'new school' approach to skills actually solves these problems by removing the character's implementation of protocols like 'search' and 'disarm trap' to the character's statistics, making the character's SOP and their execution of tasks outside of the player's control. But in doing so, the game moves the ludic value of these elements to other areas of play-- a search in this context awards the player information or extra resources with which to make decisions, and because your execution hinges on the roll rather than 'just happening when you describe the right solution' it becomes a matter of risk management, and having a character who does things well is a reward for skilled character building. By embracing the idea that these are essentially solutions for OS problems, we can contextualize and use them better-- ensuring that the interesting elements of decision making exist on the level of the player's decision making, rather than hidden behind the roll. So rather than just 'rolling at' the problem, we instead roll to gain information, or to execute a solution-- things that aren't decision making for an experienced player whose seen a few tricks and pokes at everything with a pole from 15 feet away, but have been functionally automated in their style of play (whether the GM has started automating it in practice, or if the player just runs down their mental check list.) Leaving you with decisions (attempt to disarm the trapped statue or leave the gem in its forehead alone) that make player skill an exercise in risk management.</blockquote>

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