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Message: <blockquote data-quote="barsoomcore" data-source="post: 1308075" data-attributes="member: 812">Somehow managing to stay clear of the endlessly entertaining efforts of everyone to pretend they're not insulting each other, I thought I'd re-address nikolai's points on the topic of the thread.But please don't let me stop the "you're brainwashed!" debate. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />One by one...Perhaps you missed pretty much all of Cate Blanchett's opening monologue in Fellowship, or most of Ian McKellen's lines from the first half of that movie. It is made abundantly clear that Sauron seeks dominion over Middle-Earth and if he gets the Ring his victory is assured.I don't have to touch on this, do I? I can't believe anybody could watch these films and NOT get the impression that Gandalf wants the Ring destroyed.Again, if you were watching the same movie I was watching, this is exactly what's happening.Now indeed we do here encounter a change. The narrative is changed. But first, in the book, we don't in fact know what Sauron's reaction to seeing Pippin was. Gandalf theorises, but we are never told what the truth may be. Therefore, your attempt to build a case for necessary causality is lacking -- because you're pretending that it's crucial that Sauron thinks Saruman has betrayed him. It's not, nor is it crucial that Sauron thinks Aragorn has the ring.That is, it's not crucial to the PLOT. The plot is NOT what characters think or feel. It is only the line of the action of the story. The plot of the Lord of the Rings is the effort to destroy the One Ring. In the book, what's important to the plot is that Pippin looks into the palantir, as does Aragorn, and after that, Sauron launches his attack on Minas Tirith.So what do we have in the movie? We have Pippin looking into the palantir, and subsequent to this (because of it, Gandalf theorises) Sauron launches his attack on Minas Tirith. The missing component to the narrative is Aragorn looking into the palantir. However the plot is maintained, and even causality is provided as Gandalf suggests that Sauron thinks Pippin is in fact the Ringbearer, and will therefore begin his attack speedily.Denethor's madness has nothing to do with the plot of Lord of the Rings. It is an interesting part of the story, and has a great deal to do with Pippin's character arc (to say nothing of Faramir's), but it has nothing to do with the plot.From a plot standpoint, Denethor can be dispensed with because he is no longer needed: the King is about to arrive and with Denethor gone there is no barrier to Aragorn assuming command. The mechanics of how he goes are immaterial to the plot.You are in some cases indeed pointing out changes between the movie and the book. And you have every right to dislike those changes, or even to feel that you couldn't enjoy the story because of them. I have no argument with that.I'm just pointing out that the plot from novel to movie is not DRAMATICALLY changed.</blockquote>

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