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<blockquote data-quote="Mercurius" data-source="post: 8174988" data-attributes="member: 59082"><p>My first response is, so what? Should we expect fiction to represent our own real-world ideology, be it ontological, socio-economic, moral, or otherwise? We can read anything through the perspective of our preferred ideology, but doesn't that reduce the potentials of fiction? (and I say this as someone who, in the real-world, finds a lot of value in a perspective on socio-economics that emphasizes class dynamics; meaning, big fan of Zinn, Chomsky, etc).</p><p></p><p>Regardless of what Tolkien's socio-political views were, is there anything inherently "problematic" with creating a world that involves a cosmic hierarchy? So my main point of disagreement is not on what is the good, true and beautiful in our world, but why it is "problematic" for a work of fiction to explore possibilities, even those that don't jive with our own ideology. It isn't problematic to depict a fantasy world with an ontological divine order. Actually, I don't think it is problematic to even suggest that is how our world is and/or should be. Where it becomes problematic is when there is an attempt to force that view upon others, whether ideologically or in terms of lifestyle.</p><p></p><p>Now I personally don't like the message of "don't challenge the gods," but I think that is an overly simplistic reading of what Tolkien was saying, which included elements of Icarus and Greek stories of hubris, which aren't simply divine powers being jerks and saying "know your place," but expositions of the problems of egotism and excessive pride.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Mercurius, post: 8174988, member: 59082"] My first response is, so what? Should we expect fiction to represent our own real-world ideology, be it ontological, socio-economic, moral, or otherwise? We can read anything through the perspective of our preferred ideology, but doesn't that reduce the potentials of fiction? (and I say this as someone who, in the real-world, finds a lot of value in a perspective on socio-economics that emphasizes class dynamics; meaning, big fan of Zinn, Chomsky, etc). Regardless of what Tolkien's socio-political views were, is there anything inherently "problematic" with creating a world that involves a cosmic hierarchy? So my main point of disagreement is not on what is the good, true and beautiful in our world, but why it is "problematic" for a work of fiction to explore possibilities, even those that don't jive with our own ideology. It isn't problematic to depict a fantasy world with an ontological divine order. Actually, I don't think it is problematic to even suggest that is how our world is and/or should be. Where it becomes problematic is when there is an attempt to force that view upon others, whether ideologically or in terms of lifestyle. Now I personally don't like the message of "don't challenge the gods," but I think that is an overly simplistic reading of what Tolkien was saying, which included elements of Icarus and Greek stories of hubris, which aren't simply divine powers being jerks and saying "know your place," but expositions of the problems of egotism and excessive pride. [/QUOTE]
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