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Lord Soth in canon
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<blockquote data-quote="humble minion" data-source="post: 9015883" data-attributes="member: 5948"><p>First, thanks to [USER=8461]@Alzrius[/USER] and [USER=9254]@kigmatzomat[/USER] for putting in the effort to write long and detailed answers!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, it's a tough one. It's never really mattered in the Soth stories that have been told so far, so I suspect nobody really thought too much about it before now, but it does matter once SotDQ comes along given [SPOILER]the prominence of Leedara in the story. But then again, the portrayal of the banshees in prior products has always been wild hateful monsters, so Leedara is pretty much a retcon there already. Honestly, I'm kinda tempted to replace Leedara with Isolde - she's pretty much the only innocent in the story - and it'd drive Soth MAD if he somehow found out she'd appeared to the PCs and not to him. the elf-vs-human angle hadn't occured to me, honestly. Not sure I'd use it because it'd make Leedara much less sympathetic, but it could work.[/SPOILER]</p><p></p><p>Now I think of it though, it's a real pity that Soth and Sturm never met in canon - especially if Sturm was with Alhana at the time. There's some really nice parallels you can draw between the situations of the two knights.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Good point. For some reason i thought they were actually clerics at this point, but i reread the old Ravenloft module When Black Roses Bloom and it says (canonicity is up to you of course) that Isolde and her friends were travelling to Istar to become clerics when they met Soth (which also explains why he had to rescue them when the ogres attacked, cos a dozen-odd clerics could be a pretty formidable prospect). But if they're just wannabe acolytes, and more to the point, wannabe acolytes who thought that Istar at this point in time was a good place to learn about goodness, then that fits ok.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, that makes sense. Honestly, if her cleric-ness never happened, then she's just got 'domestic abuse victim' written all over her. He's good underneath, I know it, he does love me I just shouldn't make him angry, you should have seen how romantic he was when we were courting...</p><p></p><p>Definitely material I'd need to raise in a session zero to see if players are ok with it, but it works as a dynamic.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I haven't read Knight of the Black Rose for 20 years, and I've never read Spectre of the Black Rose or Lord Soth either. I've got a long overseas flight coming up, I might see if i can track them down for some reading material to pass the time...</p><p></p><p>Definitely agree that Soth is pretty passive and spends his time brooding in his keep until the War of the Lance. He's not really a proactive plotter. I suppose that makes sense from a world-building point of view. If the area around Dargaard Keep is just a big no-go zone, then the locals can work around it, divert roads to bypass it and so on. If it's actually a base for aggressive plotting by the evil undead, you kinda have to do something about it. It's smack bang in the middle of Solamnia, after all, and Soth is the Solamnic Knights' big shame. If he was more active, running around terrifying peasants and raising undead armies, they'd have been warring against him (probably futilely) for years.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yeah, like so much of Krynn, he seems to exist mostly for the purpose of his role in the story of Tanis et al. It does make him difficult to use in a game that doesn't involve them though. Not sure I'd have him go full obsessive stalkery on a female PC like he does on Kitiara, because Kitiara is kinda his iconic thing and he should have that. I might try to link his backstory to a PC somehow, perhaps if there's a Solamnic PC, their many-times-great grandfather could have been one of the knights judging Soth's trial, or perhaps an elven PC could be a relation of Isolde (or one of the banshees). Everything's always personal for Soth, after all - if he comes across a connection of one of the people he blames for his downfall, that might get his attention. He doesn't really believe in anything except himself, so any hooks to get his interest would have to be personal too. Unfortunately, I DO want to run that great SotDQ set piece where [SPOILER]the PCs struggle home from a losing battle and discover with great relief that Solamnics Knight have arrived as reinforcements - only to slowly discover that in fact it's Soth and his undead who've busted in and murdered everyone[/SPOILER], and there's really no personal motive for him to do any of that. Hmm.</p><p></p><p>Soth eventually joining up with Takhisis I can understand. At this point, the Dragonarmies are still bargaining with other evil types in order to make alliances, join up with the war etc. They make some sort of deal with the minotaurs, for instance, not just crush them and bind them to servitude. It's not a GOOD deal for the minotaurs in the long run, particularly, but there was a diplomatic process happening there. I figure the same happened with Soth. Ariakas (or Takhisis) showed up and asked him what it'd take for him to join in the war. He makes the stipulation about a night in Dargaard keep, and it's Kitiara who takes up the offer, and the rest is (imaginary) history. He's never been Takhisis's servitor exactly, even less than the evil dragons are. He allies with her because he wants Kitiara.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="humble minion, post: 9015883, member: 5948"] First, thanks to [USER=8461]@Alzrius[/USER] and [USER=9254]@kigmatzomat[/USER] for putting in the effort to write long and detailed answers! Yeah, it's a tough one. It's never really mattered in the Soth stories that have been told so far, so I suspect nobody really thought too much about it before now, but it does matter once SotDQ comes along given [SPOILER]the prominence of Leedara in the story. But then again, the portrayal of the banshees in prior products has always been wild hateful monsters, so Leedara is pretty much a retcon there already. Honestly, I'm kinda tempted to replace Leedara with Isolde - she's pretty much the only innocent in the story - and it'd drive Soth MAD if he somehow found out she'd appeared to the PCs and not to him. the elf-vs-human angle hadn't occured to me, honestly. Not sure I'd use it because it'd make Leedara much less sympathetic, but it could work.[/SPOILER] Now I think of it though, it's a real pity that Soth and Sturm never met in canon - especially if Sturm was with Alhana at the time. There's some really nice parallels you can draw between the situations of the two knights. Good point. For some reason i thought they were actually clerics at this point, but i reread the old Ravenloft module When Black Roses Bloom and it says (canonicity is up to you of course) that Isolde and her friends were travelling to Istar to become clerics when they met Soth (which also explains why he had to rescue them when the ogres attacked, cos a dozen-odd clerics could be a pretty formidable prospect). But if they're just wannabe acolytes, and more to the point, wannabe acolytes who thought that Istar at this point in time was a good place to learn about goodness, then that fits ok. Yeah, that makes sense. Honestly, if her cleric-ness never happened, then she's just got 'domestic abuse victim' written all over her. He's good underneath, I know it, he does love me I just shouldn't make him angry, you should have seen how romantic he was when we were courting... Definitely material I'd need to raise in a session zero to see if players are ok with it, but it works as a dynamic. I haven't read Knight of the Black Rose for 20 years, and I've never read Spectre of the Black Rose or Lord Soth either. I've got a long overseas flight coming up, I might see if i can track them down for some reading material to pass the time... Definitely agree that Soth is pretty passive and spends his time brooding in his keep until the War of the Lance. He's not really a proactive plotter. I suppose that makes sense from a world-building point of view. If the area around Dargaard Keep is just a big no-go zone, then the locals can work around it, divert roads to bypass it and so on. If it's actually a base for aggressive plotting by the evil undead, you kinda have to do something about it. It's smack bang in the middle of Solamnia, after all, and Soth is the Solamnic Knights' big shame. If he was more active, running around terrifying peasants and raising undead armies, they'd have been warring against him (probably futilely) for years. Yeah, like so much of Krynn, he seems to exist mostly for the purpose of his role in the story of Tanis et al. It does make him difficult to use in a game that doesn't involve them though. Not sure I'd have him go full obsessive stalkery on a female PC like he does on Kitiara, because Kitiara is kinda his iconic thing and he should have that. I might try to link his backstory to a PC somehow, perhaps if there's a Solamnic PC, their many-times-great grandfather could have been one of the knights judging Soth's trial, or perhaps an elven PC could be a relation of Isolde (or one of the banshees). Everything's always personal for Soth, after all - if he comes across a connection of one of the people he blames for his downfall, that might get his attention. He doesn't really believe in anything except himself, so any hooks to get his interest would have to be personal too. Unfortunately, I DO want to run that great SotDQ set piece where [SPOILER]the PCs struggle home from a losing battle and discover with great relief that Solamnics Knight have arrived as reinforcements - only to slowly discover that in fact it's Soth and his undead who've busted in and murdered everyone[/SPOILER], and there's really no personal motive for him to do any of that. Hmm. Soth eventually joining up with Takhisis I can understand. At this point, the Dragonarmies are still bargaining with other evil types in order to make alliances, join up with the war etc. They make some sort of deal with the minotaurs, for instance, not just crush them and bind them to servitude. It's not a GOOD deal for the minotaurs in the long run, particularly, but there was a diplomatic process happening there. I figure the same happened with Soth. Ariakas (or Takhisis) showed up and asked him what it'd take for him to join in the war. He makes the stipulation about a night in Dargaard keep, and it's Kitiara who takes up the offer, and the rest is (imaginary) history. He's never been Takhisis's servitor exactly, even less than the evil dragons are. He allies with her because he wants Kitiara. [/QUOTE]
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