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Message: <blockquote data-quote="GreyLord" data-source="post: 8437278" data-attributes="member: 4348">The thing is that she did NOT get unfair treatment according to some.You are villainizing all those who were C&D'd by here, sued by her, and had bad experiences from her.AND THEN, you discount them and have those saying...well...Gygax did the same thing (note...he did NOT...it's like saying that since a cop gave a ticket to you for speeding and gave you a massive fine and another cop gave you a ticket for reckless driving and then took you to jail but no fine that they did the same thing...it's NOT the same thing).There's a REASON she has the reputation...and ignoring it and telling all those who lived through it and got attacked that it's just like "their opinion" is villanizing everyone ELSE to try to make it that how she has been treated since is unfair.Let's have someone (we will call them suitor L) sue you and try to remove your livelihood and then sue your friends and C&D them and see how you feel when someone says that individual who attacked you was treated unfairly and it was all due to sexism.  It wasn't just guys she went after, and it wasn't just guys she chased out of the hobby.  If you knew anything you'd realize that she chased out more woman than Gygax even did (well, those who were working for TSR at the time), so saying it's purely sexism or other things shows absolutely no congnizence of WHY she is actually vilified in the first place.HINT:  It has NOTHING to do with sexism for the most part and EVERYTHING to do with the actions she took.HOWEVER...what tells me this is MORE to do with lynching Gygax than actually balancing things out is that I've given perhaps the strongest argument on her postives (and it is a mighty big positive, probably the biggest one in the thread) and instead of actually LOOKING at these things, it's been blatantly ignored in favor of trying to refute any negative experiences anyone has had with her.  This isn't looking to balance or re-evaluate, as any positives are blatantly and totally ignored because the negatives don't fit your narratives.  This isn't a re-evaluation where you are out to change someone's mind, or it doesn't look that way.  It looks more to try to toss out any opinion that doesn't fit your ideas (regardless of how right or wrong they are) rather than actually look at the balance as was suggested at first.Look, I've actually been one of Mrs. Williams most stringent defenders in the past on some items.  I can tell you the actual positives she had, and the biggest one is a massively big one.  AS one who has defended her in the past, I'm telling you that ignoring myriads of stories that tell you WHY she has been painted as a "villain" in the past, if one could put it that way, is not giving her a re-evaluation.  You need to balance out how strongly each is worth in your evaluation.  Thus far the evaluation is basically saying as follows from what I've read...1.  She was misjudged because everyone she did wrong to wasn't really wrong, it is just seen that way because of sexism.2.  Gygax did bad things too.And that's the basis of what I'm reading in the thread.  It's not actually looking at the bad and good she did, just trying to justify her actions rather than judge them on their own merits of the impacts they had, what they did, and the REAL reasons of WHY they caused her to be seen as she is.  This isn't re-evaluating as much as attacking those who may have legitimate reasons to feel the way they do.  Another telling is trying to apply this to her in the name of "sexism" but the other ball in the room, the other person that is also vilified who just happens to be a male (bloom) is ignored.  They did the same things to get vilified, but the question then is why is her's due to sexism and his not?AS I said, what she did wouldn't MATTER if Mrs. Williams was a woman or a man, it was WHAT she did that caused people to vilify her.  When you are actually INTERESTED in discussing that and WHY it actually made people so angry (and angry still, far more angry than what Gygax did for the most part...though there are some that are angry at him as well) and the concerns they had vs. the positives that she had on TSR and the industry in general...that becomes a more worthwhile discussion that actually may start re-evaluation as it should be, based on HER MERITS and negatives rather than simply making up history as you go along.</blockquote>

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