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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Propheous_D" data-source="post: 3986123" data-attributes="member: 58952">Correct me if I am wrong but didn't dragons have rediculous blindsight abilities, scent, and similar detection abilities. So the rogue would not be able to sneak up on the dragon even with flight as the dragon could detect him by scent. Even if the Rogue could sneak up on the dragon he can't kill him in one round unless the dragon is really really weak.The one thing in FR that I thought they should have kept on 3rd was that dragons in 2E only took 1/4 damage from physical attacks. This was stated to emphasize the fact that dragons in FR were a little more daunting.Most of the stuff I read here is very dissapointing to say the least. Even with out shapeshift/polymorph a dragon would easily be able to acquire minions. Power seeks Power, and weakness seeks shelter in the presence of power. Dragons make powerful allies to anyone of power. In good kingdoms with good Dragons there would be those smart enough to seek the dragons councel if the dragon was interested, or even worship the dragon itself. In evil kingdoms dragons would rule, work with, or be dominated through strength by other powers. This is the nature of things.As for getting messages to and from operatives that is so incredibly easy for all the reasons stated here. A good dragon who befriends the native dryads of the forest he resides in offering wisdom, and protection would have some of the best spies. An evil dragon who inhabits the swamp and is woshipped by the local Troll tribe as a totemic figure would make for more then an interesting set of lackies.I find the need for people to use magic as an excuse for something to be "powerful" or to "survive" really is not that knowledgeable in the game, the literature, and needs to open their mind to how the world both fantastically and realistically works. Dragons would use the concepts of social engineering and manipulation if evil, or simply use the benificial aspects of being a nice dragon and recognized for what one was in other cases. The honest truth is that a known dragon is all ways a dead dragon. Dragons do not publicize thier lairs, and do not leave them ungaurded or in places were people can easily go. Thier minions may know the location but a smart evil dragon would not even let anyone but his most trusted minions whom would never see beyond the walls of his lair into it.Lets not forget that simple is often best. A dragon who resides in the broken ruins of a volcanoe doesn't need a permanent entrance as he can make one and destroy one at his leisure using nothig more then brute force and claws. Let alone a breath weapon.Please let us get over this argument of what things should and should not have. This is DnD if *YOU* believe its flavourful then add it, but I think there is more then enough arguements against why dragons don't need magic and I have not seen a ANY ONE SINGLE point that makes me think dragons even need a single level of Mage/Cleric.I know though in my games Dragons will all ways have the ability to polymorph but this is my choice and how I like to see dragons.</blockquote>

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