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General Tabletop Discussion
Character Builds & Optimization
Loss of Innate Spellcasting (or 'How Dragons Build Lairs')
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<blockquote data-quote="Derren" data-source="post: 3992514" data-attributes="member: 2518"><p>1. Without magic dragons are a lot weaker as they lack options. After the players encountered 3 red dragons in the game they will knew what awaits them which makes the dragon weaker. Also if you play out the environment around the dragon a lack of magic also makes teh dragon weaker as it can't prepare itself against the PCs (or generally against the adventurers) anymore.</p><p></p><p>2. Its better for the rules to give a monster which requires spellcasting those spells instead of requiring every DM who wants more than a combat encounter to houserule it in.</p><p>Also theoretically you just need rules to build monsters and not actual monsters itself. That way every DM can have what he wants and you would save a whole book. </p><p>But that is not what people want, they want complete monsters.</p><p></p><p>3. If some DMs want to use monsters like they did use them in previous editions they should be able to do so. </p><p></p><p>4. The BBEG is not the BBEG when it is more or less helpless without his minions as he might still be able to fight well but has no way to influence the world on a level appropriate scale.</p><p></p><p>5. In 3E yes (High level, or with access to a lot of spellcasters). generally the BBEG must be able to match the ressources of the opposition (NPCs and PCs) and when they have magic he needs them too.</p><p></p><p>6. A good plotline requires the BBEG to have fixed abilities and not get ruled 0 whenever he needs something.</p><p></p><p>7. So far I haven't seen a viable theory, only some dodged counters which don't really address the point. If you know a counter example post it in my "Challenge" Thread.</p><p><a href="http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=216248" target="_blank">http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=216248</a></p><p></p><p>The problem with all counters is that they do not address the big picture. See the smoke idea. Yes, smoke can be a way to convey messages, but the poster didn't think of how this method of communication would mean for the day to day life of the dragon, the possible operating distance of the dragon or for the security of the operation (suspicious, easily forgeable,). This "seeing the big picture" (don't know a better word for it) is what all those counters are lacking imo.</p><p></p><p>In your 28 years of GMing, did you ever think about the backstory and how the dragons achieved what they did by the rules or simply said "thats a interesting plotline so that happened"?.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Derren, post: 3992514, member: 2518"] 1. Without magic dragons are a lot weaker as they lack options. After the players encountered 3 red dragons in the game they will knew what awaits them which makes the dragon weaker. Also if you play out the environment around the dragon a lack of magic also makes teh dragon weaker as it can't prepare itself against the PCs (or generally against the adventurers) anymore. 2. Its better for the rules to give a monster which requires spellcasting those spells instead of requiring every DM who wants more than a combat encounter to houserule it in. Also theoretically you just need rules to build monsters and not actual monsters itself. That way every DM can have what he wants and you would save a whole book. But that is not what people want, they want complete monsters. 3. If some DMs want to use monsters like they did use them in previous editions they should be able to do so. 4. The BBEG is not the BBEG when it is more or less helpless without his minions as he might still be able to fight well but has no way to influence the world on a level appropriate scale. 5. In 3E yes (High level, or with access to a lot of spellcasters). generally the BBEG must be able to match the ressources of the opposition (NPCs and PCs) and when they have magic he needs them too. 6. A good plotline requires the BBEG to have fixed abilities and not get ruled 0 whenever he needs something. 7. So far I haven't seen a viable theory, only some dodged counters which don't really address the point. If you know a counter example post it in my "Challenge" Thread. [url]http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=216248[/url] The problem with all counters is that they do not address the big picture. See the smoke idea. Yes, smoke can be a way to convey messages, but the poster didn't think of how this method of communication would mean for the day to day life of the dragon, the possible operating distance of the dragon or for the security of the operation (suspicious, easily forgeable,). This "seeing the big picture" (don't know a better word for it) is what all those counters are lacking imo. In your 28 years of GMing, did you ever think about the backstory and how the dragons achieved what they did by the rules or simply said "thats a interesting plotline so that happened"?. [/QUOTE]
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