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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Lackhand" data-source="post: 3994651" data-attributes="member: 36160">I'm a little confused what exactly the goal here is. Is it to:1) Present a reasonable way for a Dragon to commit intrigue and otherwise manipulate the destinies of humanoid kingdoms or2) Be undefeatable by adventurers?Because these are very different goals. Everything that has been mentioned so far stymies the vast armies of humankind and provides a fair measure of protection. It takes some fairly focused attention from human(oid) champions to root out the serpent that's behind all of it, let alone throw off the phenomenal bluff, intimidate, and diplomacy checks the wyrm can make.Sure, adventurers can become aware of a dragon that communicates in a mundane fashion. They can then approach the dragon who, if they are anything other than Adventurers, bully them, intimidate them, squash them flat, or fry them crispy.On a similar note, consider trying this game from the other side, Derren. Come up with the spell list of an Adult Red dragon (200 years old, casts as a 7th level sorceror, I believe?) that doesn't fall into the exact same problems.These are plot hooks, not flaws, and the dragon manages what it does far better than an equivalent human (non wizard) mastermind.Or are we just arguing that wizards are broken? <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Edit: I guess it just feels to me that the ground rules for this argument are that the Dragon, to be a mover and shaker, must be:Invincible, Omnicognizant, Extraordinarily subtle, Able to hold (solo!) its own against the amassed forces of several kingdoms and fairly large numbers of humanoid champions, and Unable to positively interact with anyone useful.These exact same strictures kill a dragon with spellcasting dead, so I must be missing something.</blockquote>

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