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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Propheous_D" data-source="post: 3995482" data-attributes="member: 58952">Actually you assume that adventurers know were the dragon is right away and do not do anything to ti the dragon off. This is typically FAR from the truth. Adventurers even in 3e CAN NOT teleport into a dragons lair. They need to know were it is and have a good working knowledge of the area they are teleporting into. Any form of transport into a dragons lair is going to require atleast 1 days travel. In which a dragon can easily receive warning from his spies and followers. Again your points are making MANY assumptions and completely inaccurate use of abilities alloted to PCs. These two spells really are not practical. Were does the dragon waste his alarm spell? were does the dragon hide while being in line of sight and concentrating on a silent image? This is completely impractical in all ways. Not to mention a complete waste of time for a dragon who has much better options with out worrying about these pathetic parlor tricks. Example 1 cavern the PC's have to pass through which he simple collapses on them using his strength or breath weapon is a hundred times more effective then the sillent image. Again non-magical defeats magical in this instance in every way.Again even buffed how is a thief a match for a dragon in melee? Are you assuming 3E buffs and assuming they work in 4E. Again your arguements are widely speculative and full of wholes. There is no place to stop and buff in a 120' diameter cavern. The dragon can even sleep in a much smaller chamber.I don't see an invisible undectable 10th level wizard here I see lunch for a dragon. Dimensional door only gets one so far and a dragon fiies rediculously fast. Not to mention the dragon just needs to ambush the wizard along his path. Not to hard for anyone to do really. The wizard is much better off just using normal means and blending in with the common folk. 200 archers firing with a required 20 to hit will only hit 10 times for 1d8 per hit even with magic and buffed to the nines lets say that does 20 damage per hit (which it won't) its only 200 damage and a dragon has 500-1000 hit points. It takes only one breath weapon too take down a rediculous amount of archers not to mention once close enough which takes 1 round they can be effected by fear which may reduce the enitre 200 archers into nothing thus defeating the entire plan in one round.since when are air holes murder holes? All a dragon has to do is have his air holes angled which is not that difficult and bam done. not to mention all he has to do is have something 1 ft in front of his air holes and no pc can see or fire anything into the room. If you are going to assume things try playing devil advocate with yourself and realize that when you post things that are obvious it doesn't help our discussion progress but keeps us on this silly circular arguement.Organizations do not all ways seek to destroy dragons, but in actually would seek to use them for thier benefit. this can be beneficial to the dragons themselves as they gain powerful allies. This again goes back to the understanding that Dragons are a force to be reckoned with. A CR20 dragon stands an incredibly good chance of slaughtering any single combatant 20th level or lower, and as those level lower the amount of combatants it can slaughter increases exponentially. You are stuck thinking of magic as a means to an end. If magic was the only means to an end then armies would be useless.No one has said dragons can not use rituals. No one has said dragons can not cast spells. All that was stated is that base dragons no longer include casting levels.This is not true at all. A smart Mastermind compartmentalizes. The trick to staying in power is to keep your underlings in the dark. Give your underlings the abiity to do everything and they will betray you. This is easily avoided, and the setup for it is not that hard at all. This is were you are having difficulty. Your lack of understanding on how social structure and intrigue work is were your arguements fail to prove to have merit.All powerful minions are kept at arms length and scrutinized. Its good to have a dozen or so equally powerful minions this allows you to keep them seperate and at each others throats. The trick is keeping those minions power in balance. If one starts to out strip the others he/she must be replaced or taken out of that level and moved somewere that removes his powerbase and isolates him/her to remove the ability to take over.</blockquote>

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