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<blockquote data-quote="Desdichado" data-source="post: 22994" data-attributes="member: 2205">Those rings are not --by any stretch of the term-- rings of combat prowess, though.&nbsp; I wouldn't take the presence or absence of a ring as significant in this situation.As for Sauron, Tolkien wrote in The War of the Jewels that Morgoth was, by far, the most powerful of the Valar, and had the most native power.&nbsp; Amongst the Maiar who served him (he apparently didn't rank Maiar other than those who served him) Sauron was by far the most powerful -- an order of magnitude more powerful than even Gothmog, the chief of the Balrogs.However, there's a lot of variables.&nbsp; Sauron doesn't seem to have spent his energy on being a force of pure physical destruction, as the balrogs did.&nbsp; He's more the director, not the actual agent of destruction, so he may not really be all that hot in combat, scenes from the beginning of the movie notwithstanding.&nbsp; After his defeat and loss of the ring, there's no telling what kind of power he retained, or even if he had a physical body to be attacked and to make attacks.&nbsp; We also don't know where on the spectrum this particular balrog falls, except to relate him to pre-reincarnation era Gandalf, which doesn't really tell us too much either.I'd say Saruman could probably fare nearly as well as Gandalf, at least before he &quot;spent&quot; his natural force on evil --&nbsp; a common theme in Tolkien, that evil dissipates and weakens you.&nbsp; None of even the first generation Noldor out of Valinor seem to have done well against the balrogs, except Ecthelion, who was slain himself for his trouble, so I don't give good odds to anyone else on the list, except perhaps Galadriel herself and Elrond.For those of you who say that Elrond was not Noldor, I don't know exactly what you mean.&nbsp; Elrond was chief of the remaining Noldor in Middle-earth, a direct descendent of Finwe, the original Noldorin elf, and son of Earandil, who killed Ancalagon the black in single combat -- a feat even the best of the rest of the Noldor can't match.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Desdichado, post: 22994, member: 2205"] [i][/i] Those rings are not --by any stretch of the term-- rings of combat prowess, though. I wouldn't take the presence or absence of a ring as significant in this situation. As for Sauron, Tolkien wrote in [i]The War of the Jewels[/i] that Morgoth was, by far, the most powerful of the Valar, and had the most native power. Amongst the Maiar who served him (he apparently didn't rank Maiar other than those who served him) Sauron was by far the most powerful -- an order of magnitude more powerful than even Gothmog, the chief of the Balrogs. However, there's a lot of variables. Sauron doesn't seem to have spent his energy on being a force of pure physical destruction, as the balrogs did. He's more the director, not the actual agent of destruction, so he may not really be all that hot in combat, scenes from the beginning of the movie notwithstanding. After his defeat and loss of the ring, there's no telling what kind of power he retained, or even if he had a physical body to be attacked and to make attacks. We also don't know where on the spectrum this particular balrog falls, except to relate him to pre-reincarnation era Gandalf, which doesn't really tell us too much either. I'd say Saruman could probably fare nearly as well as Gandalf, at least before he "spent" his natural force on evil -- a common theme in Tolkien, that evil dissipates and weakens you. None of even the first generation Noldor out of Valinor seem to have done well against the balrogs, except Ecthelion, who was slain himself for his trouble, so I don't give good odds to anyone else on the list, except perhaps Galadriel herself and Elrond. For those of you who say that Elrond was not Noldor, I don't know exactly what you mean. Elrond was chief of the remaining Noldor in Middle-earth, a direct descendent of Finwe, the original Noldorin elf, and son of Earandil, who killed Ancalagon the black in single combat -- a feat even the best of the rest of the Noldor can't match. [/QUOTE]

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