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LotR - not much of a war?
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<blockquote data-quote="The Sigil" data-source="post: 625417" data-attributes="member: 2013"><p>Assuming I recall things correctly, here is why it was a "world war."</p><p></p><p>Gondor, Rohan, the Shire, et al are the LAST line of defense.</p><p></p><p><a href="http://mume.pvv.org/Images/map-1.jpg" target="_blank">http://mume.pvv.org/Images/map-1.jpg</a></p><p></p><p>Using a scene or two from the movies to help here...</p><p></p><p>Remember the soldiers marching into the black gate? The ones that ALMOST saw Frodo and Sam (were it not for the elven cloak)? (Also the ones that were cruising around on the ouliphaunts).</p><p></p><p>These soldiers were "Southern Men." IIRC, that would be Haradwaith, which was said to have long since fallen under the influence of Sauron. For those of you keeping score, that's all the land south of Mordor and Gondor.</p><p></p><p>Also, you might remember Sauruman provoking "wild-looking" men to war with Rohan. These, IIRC, were wild men (from the Wilderland, north of Mordor and south of Mirkwood).</p><p></p><p>A few other notes:</p><p></p><p>Mirkwood, as I recall, was under attack by orcs (as I remember it, Aragorn captured Gollum and the elves of Mirkwood took him into custody - it was during a particularly nasty orcish raid - when casualties were high - that Gollum escaped. This was the reason Legolas was present in Rivendell - he was reporting to Elrond that Gollum had escaped). So clearly, the northeast area of the "map" of middle earth was having difficulty with the forces of Sauron. Not to mention the trouble Mirkwood had with spidery descendents of Shelob (documented in the Hobbit).</p><p></p><p>I could be wrong, but I believe in the books, Gimli relates to the council of Elrond that the dwarves (in the Lonely Mountain and the Iron Hills) are sorely pressed by the forces of evil.</p><p></p><p>Also remember from the Hobbit that there were troubles in the mountains betwixt Mirkwood and Rivendell... orcs and wargs were on the prowl there, as well. Obviously, Moria (further south along the same mountain chain) had considerable problems.</p><p></p><p>The Iron Hills were, IIRC, peopled with dwarves who were having difficulties of their own warding off attacks by orcs and goblins.</p><p></p><p>Furthrermore, take a look near the north side of the map - you may note a reference to Forodwaith and a reference to the realm of the Witch King of Angmar (the head of the nine ringwraiths). This was said to have been a great source of trouble round about the time of the Hobbit (c. 50 years prior to the start of the LotR trilogy).</p><p></p><p>It may also behoove you to recall that during the battle for Minas Tirith, the Black Fleet arrives (from the North). The fear was that Sauron had conquered the northern lands and had called reinforcements (avoiding spoilers deliberately here), hence the dread in Gondor at the appearance of the black fleet.</p><p></p><p>And of course, you have the treachery at Isengard. Why could the ents so easily dismantle Isengard? Because the army that would have defended it was gone (at Helm's Deep). I could be wrong, but I seem to remember the ents in the books "herding" masses of trees to help out; it wasn't just a couple of dozen ents but ents together with all the trees they could muster (this, BTW, is why, IIRC, treants in D&D have the ability to animate trees).</p><p></p><p>Remember, Eriador (the prime area for "help") is largely an empty, fallen kingdom. It is patrolled by the rangers (see below) but is not a source of any great population density.</p><p></p><p>Thus, by the context clues provided in the book (above), we see that the war is in fact "worldwide" (well, continent-wide, anyway). Why was the Shire insulated from all this? Well, in the books, we are told that the rangers (the Dunedain) took great pains to deliberately hide and protect the Shire (and Bree) from the incursions of the enemy; but the connotation is that even though the Shire is somewhat pleasant, the rest of the world has been at war for some time and it is only through the great pains taken by others that the Shire has been uninvolved.</p><p></p><p>I think that's what you're missing (and what's missing from the movie) - the constant reminders that just about everywhere else is just barely holding on or has already fallen under the sway of evil. The elves (Mirkwood, Lorien, and Rivendell), men (Gondor, Rohan, rangers/Dunedain), halflings (Shire), and a few dwarves (mostly at the lonely mountain) are about all that's left to challenge the might of Sauron. Had Sauron won, that would have been the end of Middle-Earth - the elves might have fled to the gray havens and then to the west, but even Tom Bombadil would have quickly succumbed.</p><p></p><p>In other words, this isn't the story of Germany taking France. This is the story of Germany controlling continental Europe and trying to "finish the job" by grabbing Britain. That we only see the attack on Britain in no way diminishes the fighting that went on before; it's just that our little view of Middle Earth is concentrated in one particular geographic region; that we get only hints of what is going on elsewhere is not surprising. The heroes of the story are, by and large, in one region; what reason have we to concern ourselves with Mirkwood or the Iron Hills or the Haradwaith? We don't have heroes to follow there.</p><p></p><p>LotR isn't really about the beginning of the war of the ring. It's about the very tail end of it... consider the story of WWII told from 1930-1945 versus 1942-1945. The focus of the action is in a very different place in 1942 than 1939... because what happened in 1939 is fait accompli by the time we pick up the story in 1942.</p><p></p><p>--The Sigil</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="The Sigil, post: 625417, member: 2013"] Assuming I recall things correctly, here is why it was a "world war." Gondor, Rohan, the Shire, et al are the LAST line of defense. [url]http://mume.pvv.org/Images/map-1.jpg[/url] Using a scene or two from the movies to help here... Remember the soldiers marching into the black gate? The ones that ALMOST saw Frodo and Sam (were it not for the elven cloak)? (Also the ones that were cruising around on the ouliphaunts). These soldiers were "Southern Men." IIRC, that would be Haradwaith, which was said to have long since fallen under the influence of Sauron. For those of you keeping score, that's all the land south of Mordor and Gondor. Also, you might remember Sauruman provoking "wild-looking" men to war with Rohan. These, IIRC, were wild men (from the Wilderland, north of Mordor and south of Mirkwood). A few other notes: Mirkwood, as I recall, was under attack by orcs (as I remember it, Aragorn captured Gollum and the elves of Mirkwood took him into custody - it was during a particularly nasty orcish raid - when casualties were high - that Gollum escaped. This was the reason Legolas was present in Rivendell - he was reporting to Elrond that Gollum had escaped). So clearly, the northeast area of the "map" of middle earth was having difficulty with the forces of Sauron. Not to mention the trouble Mirkwood had with spidery descendents of Shelob (documented in the Hobbit). I could be wrong, but I believe in the books, Gimli relates to the council of Elrond that the dwarves (in the Lonely Mountain and the Iron Hills) are sorely pressed by the forces of evil. Also remember from the Hobbit that there were troubles in the mountains betwixt Mirkwood and Rivendell... orcs and wargs were on the prowl there, as well. Obviously, Moria (further south along the same mountain chain) had considerable problems. The Iron Hills were, IIRC, peopled with dwarves who were having difficulties of their own warding off attacks by orcs and goblins. Furthrermore, take a look near the north side of the map - you may note a reference to Forodwaith and a reference to the realm of the Witch King of Angmar (the head of the nine ringwraiths). This was said to have been a great source of trouble round about the time of the Hobbit (c. 50 years prior to the start of the LotR trilogy). It may also behoove you to recall that during the battle for Minas Tirith, the Black Fleet arrives (from the North). The fear was that Sauron had conquered the northern lands and had called reinforcements (avoiding spoilers deliberately here), hence the dread in Gondor at the appearance of the black fleet. And of course, you have the treachery at Isengard. Why could the ents so easily dismantle Isengard? Because the army that would have defended it was gone (at Helm's Deep). I could be wrong, but I seem to remember the ents in the books "herding" masses of trees to help out; it wasn't just a couple of dozen ents but ents together with all the trees they could muster (this, BTW, is why, IIRC, treants in D&D have the ability to animate trees). Remember, Eriador (the prime area for "help") is largely an empty, fallen kingdom. It is patrolled by the rangers (see below) but is not a source of any great population density. Thus, by the context clues provided in the book (above), we see that the war is in fact "worldwide" (well, continent-wide, anyway). Why was the Shire insulated from all this? Well, in the books, we are told that the rangers (the Dunedain) took great pains to deliberately hide and protect the Shire (and Bree) from the incursions of the enemy; but the connotation is that even though the Shire is somewhat pleasant, the rest of the world has been at war for some time and it is only through the great pains taken by others that the Shire has been uninvolved. I think that's what you're missing (and what's missing from the movie) - the constant reminders that just about everywhere else is just barely holding on or has already fallen under the sway of evil. The elves (Mirkwood, Lorien, and Rivendell), men (Gondor, Rohan, rangers/Dunedain), halflings (Shire), and a few dwarves (mostly at the lonely mountain) are about all that's left to challenge the might of Sauron. Had Sauron won, that would have been the end of Middle-Earth - the elves might have fled to the gray havens and then to the west, but even Tom Bombadil would have quickly succumbed. In other words, this isn't the story of Germany taking France. This is the story of Germany controlling continental Europe and trying to "finish the job" by grabbing Britain. That we only see the attack on Britain in no way diminishes the fighting that went on before; it's just that our little view of Middle Earth is concentrated in one particular geographic region; that we get only hints of what is going on elsewhere is not surprising. The heroes of the story are, by and large, in one region; what reason have we to concern ourselves with Mirkwood or the Iron Hills or the Haradwaith? We don't have heroes to follow there. LotR isn't really about the beginning of the war of the ring. It's about the very tail end of it... consider the story of WWII told from 1930-1945 versus 1942-1945. The focus of the action is in a very different place in 1942 than 1939... because what happened in 1939 is fait accompli by the time we pick up the story in 1942. --The Sigil [/QUOTE]
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