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Message: <blockquote data-quote="rounser" data-source="post: 276565" data-attributes="member: 1106">Would a villain who is continually thwarted become a Keystone Cop, "Next time Gadget, next time!"-type though, with all bark and no bite?  This is one of the main failings recognised among the 2E novel era FR villains - they were defeated at the end of every book, and became paper tigers of the toothless variety.I've noted in the past that one of the FR series that I admire the most is the first Moonshae Trilogy, because the villains in that make nasty conquests and inroads until hope is almost gone.  As a reader, I found myself despairing that the hero's position was irretrievable, and lamenting the destruction of so many innocents - even the spirit and health of the land itself.  These were villains with teeth who drew a lot of blood to boot - they had done their job, and presented a blank canvas for true heroics.  Doesn't a formidable villain set the stage for heroics?Perhaps it has to work both ways to best effect - the villain(s) should suffer setbacks and be thwarted by the PCs where appropriate, but also make inroads nonetheless - doing enough palpable damage such that the PCs begin to feel the panic - unless the PCs are absolutely stellar in their performance and meet every move with a counter move.Yup.  In fact, you could even have the villain grow in levels at the same rate as the PCs, so he/she/it is always at the right bathwater temperature for a challenging (but not overpowering) fight, one way or another.Again, I agree.  A villains' effectiveness is defined by their actions and impact upon the PCs, which is determined by how they are used.  That implies timing, frequency of encounter, presentation, dialogue, plotting etc. - and they're all hallmarks of good DMing skills.Also, a "hands-on" villain who interacts with the PCs (especially if he/she/it wrongs them) is more likely to end up a love-to-hate villain than a behind-the-scenes big bad designed as an end of campaign threat.  This is all covered by Psion's quite insightful bit villains thread:<a href="http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?threadid=18141" target="_blank">Bit villains hijack the campaign!</a>Some nice anecdotes there, some of which seem based on DMs stumbling across situations that hit player "vengeance" nerves to a degree that they found surprising - or didn't expect/intend.</blockquote>

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