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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pemerton" data-source="post: 6985476" data-attributes="member: 42582">Comparing the ogre and the captain:AC 11 vs 15 plus a parry buff hp 59 vs 65 Melee Attack +6 for 13 vs +5 for 6, 6, and 5 Ranged Attack +6 for 11 vs +5 for 5 and 5On the whole, the bandit looks quite a bit tougher. Assuming +6 to hit, the AC increase reduces hit chance from 80% to 60%, which is a 4/3 multiplier to effective hp, which are already higher than the ogre. And for -1 to hit in melee it gets +3 to damage, which is nearly a 25% boost. The -1 only reduces chance to hit by one-fifth if AC is 22, which is probably not that likely at low levels. Vs AC 17, expected DPR is 6.5 from the ogre but 7.65 from the bandit.So overall, the bandit looks something like 1.1 (base hp) * 1.33 (better AC) * 1.17 (better DPR) = perhaps 70% more dangerous than the ogre in melee. (Upping the PCs' to hit and AC will bring this back down, but the bandit captain will still be notably better. And I haven't factored in parrying.)Perhaps the ogre can't be CR 1 because of its potential for one-shot killing some 1st level wizards or wounded PCs. But it is noticeably weaker in melee than the CR 2 bandit captain. Curiously enough, though, the ogre is a more dangerous ranged attacker than the bandit (+1 to hit, +1 to damage) - which I find a bit counterintuitive.Doubling the ogre's attacks would then make it stronger than the bandit captain. Maybe it should be, though - it's an ogre, after all!An alternative approach is just to allow it to Shove on a hit, with a +6 to the check (ie STR + prof). This is fairly straightforward, and also fits with its "ganging up" flavour text: if ogre 1 knocks a PC over, ogre 2 can get advantage, which takes its DPR from 6.5 to nearly 10 - which is more on par with the bandit captain. (Though not ever attack will have advantage, so still not quite there.)How does travelling in groups affect its CR, though? It seems a tangential point.</blockquote>

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